Help me choose a new amp!

[DumpyWumpy]

So I've got a 5150 that I love but I'm looking to add something else to the arsenal as I'm building my studio and it's always nice to have some selection... The tone of my dreams would be Nevermore - This Godless Endeavour for reference's sake! Here's what I'm considering so far...

VHT Deliverance 60 watt model: Probably not going to get that sort of saturation I'm looking for since I've heard they are very "clean" sounding but I've heard so many good things that I would love to try one, unfortunately it would be a blind purchase...

ENGL Blackmore: Seems like it has all the features I would need without breaking the bank for the more elaborate ENGL models, plus something about having Blackmore's name in the model name makes it seem like it's going to be a bit "warmer" sounding than the more solid-state sounding tones I've heard people talk about in the Powerball...

Mesa Single Rectifier: Maybe the Dual? I've heard most of my favourite Mesa tones coming out of Duals are set to Diode mode anyways though and isn't that the difference between the preamp section of the Dual and Single? If I wouldn't be using the Rectifier mode on the Dual then it's not worth the extra cash for me... I can at least try one of these out in person though, so I'll have to do that next week.

Mesa Mark IV: People seem to love these amps, how would you guys compare this to the Rectifiers for the tones I'm looking for?

Peavey JSX: Friend of mine has one, sounds incredible, but I already have the 5150 and even though the JSX does have it's own sound, I think I'd like to get something a bit different... But these are CHEAP used and are fantastic amps...

Any opinions would be appreciated!

[Fragle]

first off, i never played or even heard a vht, so i can't comment on that one.
as for the blackmore, don't be fooled by the internet talk comparing it to a tighter and clearer 5150. they're nothing alike. i know, i had them side by side basically, the blackmore at lower volumes sounds exactly like iced earth - live in athens. tight, clear, kinda trebley. back when i owned it i thought that it didn't sound that good at moderate, i.e. normal volume - awesome at HIGH volumes though. IIRC my main gripe with it was a lack of bass and an overpronounced highend, although i got to admit that back then i was shooting for a way different (read: darker) tone than i am right now, so take this with a grain of salt. it IS however pretty cheap, widely available, and very clear sounding.
BUT....it sounds absolutely nothing like nevermore. not even close. so, if you're set on a nevermore-like tone, i honestly wouldn't consider the blackmore.

which leads me right to the rectifier. if you're shooting for a nevermore (especially the more recent) tone, this is it. preferably with an overdrive in front to tighten things up a tad, but even without one the basic tone is right there. whether to get the single or the dual depends on what you're trying to achive except an nevermore-ish heavy tone...generally, i'd prefer the single unless you need tons (and i mean TONS) of volume...then, go for the dual, or even the triple. if you're going to use it live and need a lot of options, also go for the newer 3ch dual/triple. if versatilty is not that crucial, the older 2ch dual/triple rectos might be the better choice. they're generally said to be tighter and clearer with a less fizzy highend. i haven't personally done an A/B test, though, so this *might* be just a rumor similar to the block letter vs. signature 5150 debate.

mark IV....way better lead amp than the recto. lamb of god, dream theater, as well as nevermore-PoE/in memory would be good examples. way more midrange than a recto, but the onboard EQ really helps with getting rid of the honk and making it sound just plain heavy. the thing to know about the mark IV is that it's definitely a tweakers amp...let me put it this way: it takes a while to get the best out of a rectifier...it takes AGES to really use the mark IV to its full potential. it has a very effective EQ, plus the 5 band EQ, plus all the little switches and whatnot...be prepared to spend quite some time learning how to use this tone machine.

you might want to check out a krank, too. i haven't played one (will do so next week, though...actually i'm considering to get one myself as of right now), but andy sneap is kinda known for tracking/reamping with a krank along with either a mesa or a peavey of some sort....the latest chimaira (jsx+krankenstein) or nevermore's TGE (rectifier + revolution) would be the best sounding examples imho.
also, check out the framus cobra if you can get your hands on it. it has a very distinct sound, similar to a rectifier mixed with a jcm800 on steroids with an emphasis on low mids, that you might enjoy. way clearer and tighter than a 5150, too.

hope this helps some...

[DumpyWumpy]

Thanks for the help bro! BTW, I'm F0RBIDDEN over at the Sneap board, haha... I think I'm pretty sold on a Single Rectifier, I can easily find one of those under a grand... How much different is the Rect-o-verb head from a regular Single Rec? Just the added reverb, everything else the same? I'd never use the reverb but if I can get one of those for the same price as a regular Single Rec I'll probably go for that if it's otherwise identical, the diamond plate on the Rectifier models looks lame IMHO haha...

Gonna look into the Framus stuff too, I don't think those are that expensive, $1500 maybe?

[Dreamland_Rebel]

i really like the rectoverb combo. it just has a sweeter sound.

[madryan]

Thanks for the help bro! BTW, I'm F0RBIDDEN over at the Sneap board, haha... I think I'm pretty sold on a Single Rectifier, I can easily find one of those under a grand... How much different is the Rect-o-verb head from a regular Single Rec? Just the added reverb, everything else the same? I'd never use the reverb but if I can get one of those for the same price as a regular Single Rec I'll probably go for that if it's otherwise identical, the diamond plate on the Rectifier models looks lame IMHO haha...

Gonna look into the Framus stuff too, I don't think those are that expensive, $1500 maybe?

The Single Rec and Rectoverb are identical aside from the reverb, which IMO isn't that good anyway. I like the Tremoverb better.

I had a VHT D-60 and it absolutely killed for any sort of aggressive music. If you want more saturation just throw a clean boost in front, but IMO it sounds absolutely killer just straight in. It's also incredibly loud, and can dial in an incredible array of sounds.

[horns666]

JSX..it does Nevermore/Arch enemy very..it's smoother and more focused with more USABLE gain than the 5150. Everytime I played the JSX I dime the gain on the Ultra channel, something you certainly can't do with 5150/Recto. For for a few more bones..Uberschall, I couldn't be happier.

I've owned five 5150's..bought the first one in the cleveland area..great amps for the dough. But, they do tend to sound a bit lifeless at times.

[horns666]

Oh, you can't go wrong with VHT..but I'd go for higher wt models. I discovered anything less don't sound as full bodied. like more clarity and headroom. It has plenty nuff tight preamp saturation...more than the 2210.

For example..I owned two Marshall 2210 stacks I ran in stereo. I bought a mint 50 wt Marshall 2205 ..although they did sound similiar when A/Bd side by side w/ same cabs at moderate levels..the 2210 had a much better low end and sounded better at loud volume levels. Which is good because Marshall are not known for low end anywhoo..as they are for their definition and their undeniable tone.

John C toured all over then dumped his two Powerballs and is using 5150s..and he's much happier..they're working out better for him...he's happier. He's alos the manager at our local GC...and plays with amps all fuggin' day. I do like his tone, it works for him.

[Spivonious]

I agree that a Single Rec is the way to go for the tone you're after. Just realize that this is the only heavy tone you will have, so if you need some versatility then maybe the Mark IV or a Road King would be better. Try out the Krank Revolution too. I played it at one of my local shops and the entire building shook. But again, kind of a one-trick pony.

[horns666]

Opinions on amps are subjective..that's for certain!!!

which can be a good thing I suppose..

[DumpyWumpy]

Thanks for the suggestions dudes! I think I'm gonna snag a Single Rec or Rectoverb on eBay. I can always grab another amp in a few more months!

Curious though, what's the going price on a used Uber? I know I want a Rectifier, I've always wanted to be able to get the Mesa tone, but I've always wanted an Uber too, so maybe I can pick one of those up in the fall...

[sevser]

If you even consider a Krank (Rev or krankenstein...) Play the actual one you are going to buy. I have heard the recordings said to have be done with these and liked what I heard...I have listened to a band live getting great tone from a Rev...But the two I tried...(Rev and krankenstein...) both sounded like garbage...I spend a lot of time and many different guitars trying to get something good...Nothing...the worse hi gain amps I have ever played on...So...Maybe a quality control thing?

[madryan]

JSX.. Snip... Everytime I played the JSX I dime the gain on the Ultra channel, something you certainly can't do with 5150/Recto. For for a few more bones..Uberschall, I couldn't be happier.

I've owned five 5150's..bought the first one in the cleveland area..great amps for the dough. But, they do tend to sound a bit lifeless at times.

I gigged a JSX for a year and never got close to diming the gain... I've drifted away from lots of gain, but I just can't envision any song where diming the gain on the Ultra channel would sound good. What exactly are you playing?

That being said, I sold the JSX because of that hideous "cocked wah" effect. Couldn't stand the nasty "hishy" quality of the gain either. IMO, the JSX sounds like a POD running through a Tube power amp.

[madryan]

Oh, you can't go wrong with VHT..but I'd go for higher wt models. I discovered anything less don't sound as full bodied. like more clarity and headroom. It has plenty nuff tight preamp saturation...more than the 2210.

For example..I owned two Marshall 2210 stacks I ran in stereo. I bought a mint 50 wt Marshall 2205 ..although they did sound similiar when A/Bd side by side w/ same cabs at moderate levels..the 2210 had a much better low end and sounded better at loud volume levels. Which is good because Marshall are not known for low end anywhoo..as they are for their definition and their undeniable tone.

John C toured all over then dumped his two Powerballs and is using 5150s..and he's much happier..they're working out better for him...he's happier. He's alos the manager at our local GC...and plays with amps all fuggin' day. I do like his tone, it works for him.

I'm not sure were your comments on the VHT are coming from. IMO, the Deliverance amps are the best sounding of the VHT's. They sound the most organic which isn't a word often associated with VHT. I guess everyone's ears are different.

[madryan]

Thanks for the suggestions dudes! I think I'm gonna snag a Single Rec or Rectoverb on eBay. I can always grab another amp in a few more months!

Curious though, what's the going price on a used Uber? I know I want a Rectifier, I've always wanted to be able to get the Mesa tone, but I've always wanted an Uber too, so maybe I can pick one of those up in the fall...

Before you get a Single Rec... Try a DC-5. IMO, one of the 5 best Mesa amps of all time, and that list doesn't include the recto's of which I've owned a really nice 2 channel dual rec.

[Fragle]

"Before you get a Single Rec... Try a DC-5"
does NOT do a modern nevermore tone. i used to own one...it's much closer to the mark series, with a tad of rectifier vintage channel thrown in.
sure, there's lots of gain on tap, but while it's not quite as tweakable as the marks it's still really a tweakers amp - which is exactly why i sold it. it sounded different every night, and then going back to a tone that i liked could take quite some time.
for references sake, it did a good job at emulating a nevermore-politics of ecstacy tone.
another thing to know about the DC series is that a road case is a MUST HAVE if you got one of these. especially the graphic EQ sliders are just too flimsy to withstand regular gigging, read: being thrown around in the back of a van.