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Q. for Bill-Z.. Marshall or Uberschall?

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  • #1

    Q. for Bill-Z.. Marshall or Uberschall?

    Hey y'all.. I've got a question, mainly for Bill but anyone can offer their opinion of course.

    Once again I'm looking for new gear. I've come to the conclusion I'll either go for a Marshall JMP-1 preamp + 9200 poweramp, or the beast that is the Bogner Uberschall.

    Now the pro's and cons; the Uberschall is a total beast with more gain than anyone could ever need, obviously perfect for Nevermore and superheavy chunky stuff. It's a monster and I'm sure I would love it.

    BUT at the same time I could also get a VERY sweet deal on a Marshall JMP-1 and 9200 rack. If I understand Bill correctly, it nails the 80's stuff.. And boy I'm crazy for the 80's stuff.. that's where it all started for me.. And Bill recently said he'd probably sell his Uberschall before his Marshall rack.. I figure that's saying something.. If Rev. Bill Z. Fuggums Himself is that happy with it it must be doing something right!

    Actually I should have both the Marshall rack and the Uberschall but there's no way I can afford both. Like Bill and most people on this forum, I love the 80's stuff, but also a lot of the superheavy modern stuff.

    Anyone who can help me out here? I know that to many people this would be an easy and obvious choice, but I just can't make my mind up!
    "This ain't no Arsenio Hall show, destroy something!"
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I'm not Bill but I do have an Uberschall which I use in an 80's hard rock cover band. My favorite tube head distortion right there! I run my gain halfway up and that works for 80's hard rock. The nice thing is that if you wanted to run the gain full up on this head you could! And the tone doesn't go to hell as on other amps which crap out when turned up full on the gain. The clean channel is not bad either but its hard to match its volume to the distortion channel for live use. The effects loop works fine with line level (rack) effects but not so well with pedals. If you want to run pedals with this amp put them in front. I don't have experience with the particular Marshall setup you mentioned but you just can't go wrong with the Uber
    Rudy
    www.metalinc.net

    Comment

    • #3
      Wassup bro..hope your doing just fine..it sounds like it!

      OK you asked for it..here goes..

      Rudy is speaking gospel about the Uberschall being one of the sickest amp heads for metal. Weird, Rudy mentioned he uses about 50% of the gain on tap. I was jammin' some VH stuff with my kid today, and had the gain/bass backed off to about 11:00 to get it in the ballpark. It sounded good..actually "too good" for authentic Van Halen. The '78 VH tone is what got me started with this shit. In all reality the Bogner's super organic tone and girth surpassed what I've been chasing up 'till I bought the Uber six years ago. The Uber is by far the best head I've ever played, heard and owned for my style. To be honest my tone is prolly my favorite tone. As much as I worship Jeff Loomis, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Van Halen, Criss Oliva ect. I wouldn't trade my tone for theirs. I'd certainly like to play like them tho.

      At the time I bought my Marshall rack JMP-1/JFX-1/9200 w-5881s/ in '96. I was running two 100wt Marshall JCM800 2210s in stereo into my four Marshall 1960B straight cabs. The tone I always chased was a hybrid of classic Van Halen and latter day Criss Oliva. After going thru countless Marshalls, five 5150s, two Soldanos, the first series Dual Recto, two Ampeg Lee Jackson VL-100s, a shitload of Randalls, a Mesa Boogie Mrk III, and trying lots of VHTs, DR Zs, and everything that crossed my path for years on end. I discovered my favorite tone was from my Marshall 2210s..it was a perfect mix of Van Oliva, and it didn't require a stomp. I was set until I heard the new Marshall flagship in '96, which is my setup. I was instantly blown away. It sounded like a refined and balanced version of my two beloved 2210s in stereo. I had to buy it immediately, I was so fuggin' sold!! I traded those two mint 2210s, my mint sacred G & L bass, my 1985 Tracy Lords Hustler, and some money for it..that day! I remember the 9200 was $1299, the JMP-1 was $699, and the JFX-1 was $499. I loved the way the entire package looked and sounded. I wasn't taking any chances mixing that setup with anything else. I wanted THAT sound so I bought that exact package and I've had THAT sound since. I think the JFX-1 has its place in the tone. I've heard JMP-1s/9200 with other FX units and it just wasn't the same...especially the EL34 version..STAY AWAY from those. If you heard the difference side by side..its a no fuggin' brainer!

      OK now onto what's is better and why IMO! ALL amp "heads" I've ever owned seem to be fussy. From my 5150s to Marshalls to my Uberschall. There's a couple issues I always had with heads. There is G spots with tone and various control knobs that completely fuck up whenever someone touches one or you bump a fucker. Once I nail my tone in..the slightest change fucks me all up all up. It often seems I can't get it back to where it was. Another thing is heads are somewhat inconsistent. One day they sound fucking amazing and the next day like complete shit..and I never touch a fuggin' thing! Lots of human factors play into that tho..ear fatigue for expample. Like when your blasing the stereo in your car and its sounds fuggin' cool. You get outta the car go into a store for a while, then return to your car ..turn the key and BAM the stereo blasts a barrage of incoherent white noise and static. But if you just listened to it for a minute your ears will prolly adjust and it'll prolly sound fine again. That is why I ALWAYS dial my amps at band levels..at least with drums. Then I don't touch the tone control at lower volume levels ..maybe just the presence if anything. You get alot of mids and highs just by loud volume levels..because that's where the guitars freqs are anwhoo. Alot of players cut back the highs when tweaking their amps when alone. But as soon as they add drums/cymbals in the mix..it's mud! Add another guitar, then it battle of the midrange honks. I hear a common complaint of too much sizzle. Listen to Panama, Romeo Delight, Kiss of Death, Stand up and shout, Lay it down, Hall of the mountain king..is that too much sizzle? ..Not in that context..no.

      I'm 100% against stomp boxes to get my tone. If I require a $50 fuzz box in front of a $3000 amp to get my tone..I fuggin' wasted $3000!

      The Uberschall and Marshall are apples to oranges but they both have their place and neither of them are going anywhere. If I had to sell one of them..the Uber would go. No ifs, ands or butts. I love the Uber it is the "heaviest" tone I've ever heard. I've owned this amp for 6 years now and it prolly improved my playing because its pretty unforgiving. I must hit everything on the money, and warm up until I get just the right touch. I do alot of "pings" and divebombs..its just part of my style..so I need that on command. The Uber is touchy with that stuff. Sometimes I spend a great deal of time tweaking. Once I start with tweaking..I could be at it for over an hour and still not have what I want. That's why I'm such a fuggin' prick whenever someone wants to play my shit..don't touch the knobs fucker! Hey, I know the amp better than them..I'll turn the fuggin' knobs! I milked it for all its worth..it won't sound better.

      This is not the case with the Marshall. I would NOT be the player I am today without this Marshall. My tones are programmed into the JMP-1..they been there since '96. If I want to experiment..I have many patches to do that with. But I can go right back into my precise sound in a pinch..and its perfect every time. There is no knobs to bump, no G spots, and it doesn't sound like shit from one day to the next. I know what its going to sound like before I plug in. Its more Consistant than anything I've ever owned which allowed me hundreds if not thousands of hours for playing/writing and not tweaking/twiddlin' until blue in the fuggin' face! The Marshall is set and forget..plug in and play. That is so fuggin' nice.

      People think the Marshall is exclusively '80's. that's not true at all. It can do classic Van Halen, Dokken, Ratt, Savatage ect much better than the Uberschall..it just sounds authentic. There is preamps that may have more gain but I don't care. They don't sound like a good Marshall..Only the JMP-1 does. It has the crsip clear definition, midrange cut and edge only a Marshall has. I don't play that much Van Halen these days..only when I'm bored fuggin' around. I play nothing but my brand of original metal..a hybrid of melodic death, black, power and thrash. That's all I play. These days my tone is prolly much closer to Death/Eidolon/Arch Enemy/Nevermore than Van Halen/Savatage..the Marshall covers that fine because that's what and how I play. I dialed the Marshall in for heavier shit and my kid loves it because it sounds tighter..which makes me play better..which make us sound kick ass. The Marshall makes me play my very best. He always preferred my Uber because of its mass and heavy awesomeness..but he was really diggin' the way the Marshall sounded, after hearing the Uber for a month straight ..and so was I.

      There is nothing I can't do with the Marshall that I do with the Uberschall. I was playing my 7 string and I was doing some Nevermore shit with some crazy squeals that I just can't coax from the Bogner..and I wasn't even trying..I was playing some riffs from the "River Dragon" and I was making the original version actually sound kinda sedate!

      So, anything "brutal" or "heavy" is in the hands..it just how you play it. Touch is everything. As long as you have gear tailored and built specically around your playing. I love the way my Uber sounds..it doesn't get any heavier or oragnic than that..but the Marshall is tailored to my playing like no other amp I've played to date. Remember I've been playing with the same exact Marshall gear and patches for almost 13 years...and I'll be playing it for 13 more..no matter what amps will be out by then. I owe alot to my Marshall and it has treated me very well..maybe I'm lucky..maybe I just know how to fuggin' use it..or both.

      So if you want my blessing on the JMP-1 and 9200. Make sure you hook up both sides with two cabs and makes sure they sound good and balance without any flubs or gliches and you should have no probs. This sounds silly..but hunt down a JFX-1..it was designed to go with that rig. I truly believe that is part of the equation. I use it just for a smidge of delay and sometime chorus. I like it better than my G Major. It doesn't do much at all like pitch effects..but for delays/chorus..it really warms up the Marshall big time. Oh, make sure its the 5881 version..I HATE the EL34 version..I mean HATE! EL34s are thin and nasily with hardly any bottom end at all..without the "glassy" highs I love so much.

      Try it before you buy it..you gotta do that. I'll give you a a simple patch or two to try. If you don't like the way that sounds..then pass.

      People talk about the build quality..I dunno. I know mine stays home, but Megadeth's, Iron Maiden's, Judas Priest's and Dragonforce's don't..amoung others. Those Marshall racks seen the world many many times over so..

      If its a choice between the Marshall and the Uber..man that's hard for me to answer for you. The Marshall and I have 13 years a great history..so its weird y'know. If I didn't have that..hmmm I'd prolly take the Uber. It would depend on how I play while trying both for the first time. You need an amp to help you play your best..that's what matters most.

      I went thru a bunch of crap on youtube. There is alot of people playing JMP-1 and Marshall 9200..some pretty good..some crap. I can see why opinions can be so objective. In the right hands..it slays!
      Last edited by horns666; 09-09-2008, 07:01 AM.
      "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
      Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

      "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

      Comment

      • #4
        OK Bill thanks so much for your response, it did help one hell of a lot. Hey guess what, I recently found out that JORN's axeslinger Tore Moren plays a JMP-1 and JFX too! He's running this into a EL34 50/50. He's been playing the same setup for around 15 years now. Remember the sound on the "Worldchanger" album? Damn I had no idea that was a jmp-1 making that sound.. Awesome!

        Quick question for ya tho.. You say it's gotta be the 5881 version.. Couldn't the tubes just be changed out? That shouldn't be too difficult right?

        EDIT: The one in question IS the 5881 version! Oh lucky day!
        Last edited by Guitardude86; 09-09-2008, 03:18 PM.
        "This ain't no Arsenio Hall show, destroy something!"

        Comment

        • #5
          Tore uses this set up on World Changer..that's fuggin' awesome. I LOVE that tone!! Yeah, I can see that!

          Yes..the EL34 vesrions are "ok" but not when next to the 5881 version. They can be swapped..but it's cool the have the original monobloc since they only made then in early '96!!

          Wow it is a 5881..that's fuggin' cool!!!

          Oh..dude get a BBE 422..they do very well with this rack. That's something you can get later on...I didn't use one for about 5 years or so.
          "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
          Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

          "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

          Comment

          • #6
            Yep..yer right man. I love Carnivora..Tore is in that too.

            Their vid shows his Marshall rack..yes, that's the tone!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDOLZCs28Rw

            The JMP-1/JFX-1/and Monobloc in good use..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aPkA...eature=related
            Last edited by horns666; 09-09-2008, 05:09 PM.
            "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
            Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

            "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

            Comment

            • #7
              horns666....what an amazing review!!! I had an Uberschall and a JMP-1 rig also. The only things I found missing from your excellent review was that the mid range voicing seemed to be a little different. The Marshall's, like all Marshalls, mids were high mids, while the Uber's mids were more low mid. I loved the Uber but it was a dark amp (not a bad thing), if you brought up the highs to compensate for the low mids it could get a little sizzley. On the flip side, the JMP-1 could not get the low end of the Uber. If I was in a signed band, with roadies, I would use a combination of the two!!! The best sound I ever heard was using my Uber in stereo with a Spawn Competition (modded Marshall sound)...that was huge!!! Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with either!!! Both are great, just a little different.

              Comment

              • #8
                Absolutely Sparky..I adressed the midrange thing in many older threads. Not really here tho..

                Yes, Marshalls dominate anything/everything with midrange "cut" and "singing" lead tones ..that's what they do!

                The Uber sounds like a bass amp in comparison..even with the bass backed off to almost nothing. Oh, and that's one cab VS four!!!!

                They sound AWESOME together..combined they cover alot of sonic space! Me and my son play them together quite often. He teaches me stuff now and then.
                "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
                Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

                "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Can't believe you got rid of your '85 Traci Lords hustler....

                  Oh yeah, marshall...+1.
                  www.JerryRobison.com
                  '84 RR, '06 Pablo Santana Soloist,'76 Gibson LP Custom 3 pup,'79 LP custom 2 pup,'82 Gibson XR-1,'89 BC Rich Namm proto, '07 Lauher custom, 86 & 87 model 6, Carol-Ann Amplifiers, Marshall amps, Keeley pedals....it's a long list. Check out my site.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    damn horns, you got me wanting to hear it now!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by phill_up View Post
                      damn horns, you got me wanting to hear it now!
                      If you like Criss Oliva's best tones..well, you should! I heard nothing else duplicate that tone in my life!

                      I can post the JMP-1 stuff again for you new guys that didn't hear it. I have my VH tribute stuff and my crappy demo tape with Marshall and Uber together. I do like a Dimebag kinda thing with my Marhshall and a Dunlop 535Q. That's these best sounding thing on the demo and it was completely "off the cuff" ..it came right outta my ass.
                      "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
                      Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

                      "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        post it if you would please I haven't heard it

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by phill_up View Post
                          post it if you would please I haven't heard it
                          OK then..here's the VH stuff we did live in a basement studio in '96..it's the JMP-1 w/ speaker out. So , it's ALL JMP-1 and nothing but the JMP-1...

                          http://clevelandmetalzone.com/mp3/doctor.mp3


                          http://clevelandmetalzone.com/mp3/dance.mp3


                          http://clevelandmetalzone.com/mp3/i'mtheone.mp3


                          ..and here' the link to the demo tape..it explains everthing in the tread.. http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42804
                          "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
                          Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

                          "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Bill, I've been meaning to ask you for a while. You've stated that the 5881 version of the 9200 is the one to get; that the EL34 version sounds thin, nasally, generally not up to scratch.

                            I've heard folks say exactly the opposite about the JCM900, with folks going to the trouble of converting their 900s to EL34s. So what gives?
                            Hail yesterday

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              I'll be back G...I got a major shit attack!
                              "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
                              Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

                              "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

                              Comment

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