Trainwreck Amps?

[Cygnus X1]

Can anyone here tell me anything about the Trainwrecks?

Here is my dilemma.
I have built to date four amps...a champ throwaway, a Fender 5E3 Tweed Deluxe just to get the experience of building, and two AX84 SEL's. the first lies collecting dust for future designing, and the second gets played constantly. I redesigned the circuit to taste...the goal is high gain, good tone, and no frills. I'm at 15 watts at the moment, but want to bring it down to 2 watts to get good power tube distortion at garage volume.
The SEL-2 is good eightie's VH territory, but won't blow your head off with gain, either. Just not enough bottom.

I'm looking at building another 2 watt, but not single ended...it's a push-pull power section. But here's my rub. The guys who designed this have been all over the Trainwreck...saying it's high gain, it feeds back naturally and just sings. I've heard sound clips and to my ears it sounds no better than my SEL builds. More like medium gain.

So...is a trainwreck something that will get me into low volume, high gain territory?
Or is it just a waste of time...I get much better tone sticking a good overdrive on a Fender. I'm looking for plexi type drive...fair amount of crunch.

WTF is the Trainwreck all about, then?
Asking here, because I have not gotten answers elsewhere that make any sense.

[horns666]

Hmm..I played an all natural wood one a very long time ago...it looked like an old breadbox and very expensive at that time. I wasn't impressed at all, and I'm all about VH tone. I think you may do better with something like a DR Z Carmen Gia (sp) , he named it after his son about 10 years ago. Mike may have something even smaller these days. His amps have very nice tone, and you can get a good AC/DC tone when you crank 'em..but he always broke out the TS-9 whenever I tried his stuff.

The tone you're describing I seem to get best with my old Soldano SL60. They're cheaper imports, but I nailed "Unchained" with it..much better than my HR100. But..its still 60 watts..so.

I think guys like Hippietim or Pete are the guys to talk to about this.

[Cygnus X1]

Thank you, Bill.
I'm also looking at the SLO...to build into a 2x12 Combo I have kicking around...just doiing its job holding other combo's up off the floor! 50 watt range, just to say I built it, and have it.

The SEL is already past the early VH Marshall gain...just too damn loud for the goal.
Us older guys doing this stuff in our garages, dens, bedrooms, or wherever are scratching for volumes that won't get the po-po called in.
I'm partway there...I just don't want to waste my time on this god-given magic "Trainwreck" or "Dumble" that the amp builders keep saying is the ULTIMATE, but I just don't hear it.

I suspect they sniff at my version of distortion as being unsophisticated, or some nonsense! I want gain, and quiet! No pedals, please. I will have to break down and stick an effects loop in, though. It is the one extra bit I have a tough time doing without.

[surfreak]

I have played three different Trainwrecks to date (they're all individually named, lots of self-fabricated "mojo" if you ask me...) and a prototype allegedly built by Ken Fischer before he started Trainwreck, so perhaps I can give you some insight from a player's perspective.

They all sounded subtly different, but with the same tonal blueprint: lots of headroom and relatively low gain, very harsh at low volume, quite Matchless-like at high volume.

Definitely a good amp for classic rock, blues etc., and some of the big time collectors on the LPF seem to swear by them.

The internal build is impeccable, all p2p and top components, but again that might be more appealing for someone who owns a real 'burst and thinks that spending $ 15,000 on an amp to play in his living room with his fellow burst buddies on Sundays makes perfect sense.

I would not recommend it as a high gain holy grail though, there are many better (and cheaper) amps for that purpose.

[Cygnus X1]

OK...thank you, sur!
That's sort of what I expected.
Hell, I'm already "there " with the Tweed Deluxe, and the vintage 67 Fender Deluxe Reverb. If someone can't get good tome out of those amps, they might as well give up playing!
I'll just keep going in the direction that I'm already on.
I'm close.

High gain, great tone, low volume...all tube!

[Larz]

I've heard of the Trainwrecks from following Brad Paisley's playing, I think his handwired Trainwreck is his main stage/recording amp in conjunction with his Dr. Z stuff.

Very rare stuff I believe.

Isn't Ken Fischer deceased now?

[Twisteramps]

The trainwreck clones I own (built from ceriatone kits) are fairly high gain, but no master volumes. Use an attenuator with mine. Nice thing about them is that you can get classic rock to just on the edge of 80s metal gain with one, and roll your volume back on your guitar and they clean up better than ANY other amp I've heard.

If you can't crank it volumewise, you better have an attenuator. I think one can do the VH thing pretty well, but it's a more dynamic type of gain than just diming the preamp on a bogner or mesa. Much more gain than a cranked fender ever thought of having.

If you build one, be careful, they are a pain in the ass to dial in and are on the edge of instability... it's real easy to build one and have it turn into a motorboating monster.

[Cygnus X1]

Well, I just did the calculations on how to wire in a 6SN7 for the power tube (instead of the 6V6 or 6550). It's fairly simple, and I only have to change the cathode bias resistor.
I'll more than likely drop the B+ a bit, and check the tube bias.

The SEL uses a single power tube, single ended, cathode biased.
This should be fun!

[Twisteramps]

Just my opinion but... high gain preamp + very much power tube distortion = mush.

Might want to also check your phase inverter and see how hard you're slamming the power tubes there too.

[missionguitars1]

I've heard of the Trainwrecks from following Brad Paisley's playing, I think his handwired Trainwreck is his main stage/recording amp in conjunction with his Dr. Z stuff.

Very rare stuff I believe.

Isn't Ken Fischer deceased now?

Yes and yes.

I don't think Fischer meant for his amps to take off the way he did, but he was an insanely talented amp builder from all accounts. Unfortunately, he only made a limited number of amps, and then Vintage Guitar got into pumping them up along with a bunch of cork sniffers, and, well, the supply/demand dynamic got out of whack...bummer, as i'd like to try one to see what the buzz is all about!

[Cygnus X1]

Just my opinion but... high gain preamp + very much power tube distortion = mush.

Might want to also check your phase inverter and see how hard you're slamming the power tubes there too.

Not a problem. It's an AX84 Single Ended Lead...SEL.
The basic layout is 2x12AX7, and a power tube.
It's cathode biased, and a great platform for a budding builder like me to toy with. Marshall type tone stack, two gains for the two preamp tubes.

I have had several tubes in the power...6550, KT88...the 6V6 seems to
give up the most tone. Remember, low volume, high gain is the object.
I want more fullness at the bottom, so I think the 6SN7 will give me that.

If I'm wrong, no loss. Cheap education!
I have several great NOS 6SN7's to play with.

[FortinAmps]

Can anyone here tell me anything about the Trainwrecks?

Here is my dilemma.
I have built to date four amps...a champ throwaway, a Fender 5E3 Tweed Deluxe just to get the experience of building, and two AX84 SEL's. the first lies collecting dust for future designing, and the second gets played constantly. I redesigned the circuit to taste...the goal is high gain, good tone, and no frills. I'm at 15 watts at the moment, but want to bring it down to 2 watts to get good power tube distortion at garage volume.
The SEL-2 is good eightie's VH territory, but won't blow your head off with gain, either. Just not enough bottom.

I'm looking at building another 2 watt, but not single ended...it's a push-pull power section. But here's my rub. The guys who designed this have been all over the Trainwreck...saying it's high gain, it feeds back naturally and just sings. I've heard sound clips and to my ears it sounds no better than my SEL builds. More like medium gain.

So...is a trainwreck something that will get me into low volume, high gain territory?
Or is it just a waste of time...I get much better tone sticking a good overdrive on a Fender. I'm looking for plexi type drive...fair amount of crunch.

WTF is the Trainwreck all about, then?
Asking here, because I have not gotten answers elsewhere that make any sense.

Trainwreck amps are loud. Sounds like you've got some great builds under your belt.
Have you considered doing a Firefly build? It's a little over 1 watt output power and you could voice the preamp to be a trainwreck inspired, then tweak it to work with the new output section. I think that would get you in to the area you are describing.

If you need some schematics and documentation, shoot me a PM and I would be glad to forward it to you.
Cheers,
Mike

[Cygnus X1]

Thanks, Mike.
I skipped past the Firefly...Hi Octane straight to the SEL.
The soundclips of the Firefly sounded thin and fizzy.

I heard some great clips of the Nano though...that little thing is awesome!
Life got in the way while the SEL is flipped upside down on the bench...I will get back to it this weekend.