tubes!!!

[markD]

okay all....i HAVE to retube BOTH of my rivera heads. it hasn't been done for a while and usually, i just send them off and let a tech buy the tubes, install them, and bias them. but since i have to buy 8 power tubes and 12 preamp tubes at one time (and i am sort of broke at the moment) i need to know some good reliable tubes at a good price point.

currently i use the SED winged C EL34 power tubes. i can't afford to use those right now - too expensive for 8 of them.

i ONLY want to use EL34's. i like the way they sound. i am on a budget and i need to take these heads on the road for a little while (around the holidays) - i am NOT looking to experiment.

as far as preamp tubes, i want reliable, hi-gain, low microphonic 12ax7's. what do you guys use and/or suggest?

i am bummed out because both heads are becoming fairly unstable in regards to the tubes, so i feel it is in my best interest to replace all the tubes now,BEFORE i have any major issues (though my M-100 is having MAJOR issues now).

picking out tubes gives me a headache!!!! i am currently poking around www.tubestore.com . any other places to shop online?

thanks for your help and suggestions,

[horns666]

Hey Mark, I hear ya..I cut this from another thread.

I fucked with with tubes in the Uber all day. I put the stock JJ 12ax7s back in. Wow, now its confirmed why I hate them in the Bogner. There's much less output, gain, and low end with the JJ. But most important that obnoxious low midrange "honk" at high volume levels returned, and it can't be dialed out. I don't know why Bogner insisted using JJ's. Putting a tung sol in the V1 position did made a noticeable change with the other JJ's. It gave a little more gain, low end and warmed up the tone nicely, but not good enough. So, I added another in the V2, and didn't notice any difference..so I kept adding Tung Sols until I got my sound back! Oh, for shits and giggles I put a Sovtek 12ax7 in the V1 and it sounded a tad thiner than the JJ..if any at all. Maybe it was my imagination. At loud volumes I'd never know the difference. I'm wanting to try the JJ's and Tung Sols in the JMP-1. I assume they would be an improvement, but the Marshall came stock with the Sovteks, and I liked the tone from day one. The Bogner comes stock with the JJs, so you never know. The Bogner w JJ's sound pretty good untill you crank the amp to band levels. It seems I get unwanted poweramp coloration and compression. I want the exact preamp sound I dial in at moderate levels. That's what I LOVE about the JMP-1/9200..the tone you dial in at low levels doesn't change when loud levels. I guess there's enough headroom on tap using both 100 watt sides that allow me to be loud without pushing the 5881 that hard.

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In short, the JJs are supposed to give a more "midrange Marshall cut"..but I don't think so. The 6 matching Tung Sol 12ax7 kick ass in the Uber all around. There's more output, gain, and less midrange "honk" at loud volumes..much more full bodied than JJ's. JJ's may work well in a Marshall, but I'm not impressed with them in the Bogner.

[markD]

cool bill, thanks. is the tung sol you are using NOS or the reissue?

[Partial @ Marshall]

I agree wid da horns...Tung sols are great. I have been using the reissues and love them.

[horns666]

cool bill, thanks. is the tung sol you are using NOS or the reissue?

Honestly I dunno. A matched set of 6 cost me $117 dollars shipped, but worth it. I spoke with Dan from the tube store and asked his advice in c/w with my Midrange "honk". He strongly recommended the Tung Sols. He stated my complaint was pretty common. He said some prefer the JJ because of the "midrange Marshall cut", and told me TS had much less mids and more lows..he was spot on. But the first thing I noticed was the increase in output, that reqired to adjust the noise gate...which was no biggie.

You can try just one TS in the V1 postion. It does make a difference, having all tung sol 12ax7s is da bomb IMO!

P. Marshall..they work good for you with Marshall. I need to put two in the JMP-1. That unit is a pain to open, but so what.

[nateb]

I agree wid da horns...Tung sols are great. I have been using the reissues and love them.

I actually prefered the stock tubes to tung sols. But, that is just me.

-Nate

[Partial @ Marshall]

I love my Gilmore jr and epiphone jr cuz they both have the single 12ax7 pre/one power tube. It's great fun to swap out tubes and hear the differences in the tubes. I've tried the JJs,sovteks,GTs and a bunch of chinese off brands and in the single tube amps tung sols rule. The irony is that they were probably all made in the same place...That being said...tung sols still sound better, must be the way they silk screen the logo on them

Have jjs in the 2203 right now...need to swap them out! My amp tech thinks jjs are just the best but I am not so sure.

[toejam]

Try the KT77s in place of the EL34s.

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=3&sub_category_id=104

[Staticroute]

I really like the Tung-Sol 12AX7 also. For power tubes, if you need something cheaper than the Winged C, you might take a look at the Tung-Sol EL34B. I haven't tried them myself, but I've heard good reports. Both the 12AX7 and EL34B are reissues made in Russia by New Sensor under the Tung-Sol brand name.

[Cleveland Metal]

Personally, I'd just save up and get the Wing C's again... I've been through MANY power tubes, and I keep going back to Wing C. The few dollars you'll save isn't worth the trouble or tone difference.

I have had good luck with Svetlanas as well. Nice price point there.

The JJ/Tesla's ELs I had seemed nice... A reliable tube IMO. I just leaned more Winged C.

As for other Tubestore stuff, the I have heard New Sensor Mullards aren't particularly bad for the price.

I have to play more with the Tung Sol's preamps... I didn't quite like them in Bills amp... I'll have to hear his new settings with them, but in his Uber with such high gain, they were very hairy, and I didn't like what they did to his tone. He however does. I tried a couple in my CAE3+se and was VERY glad I didn't buy the 6 that I was planning on buying. However, not liking the JJ's I bought much either.

Sadly, my favorite sound was using a mix of old RCA 7025 NOS, and some cheese grater getter Chinese.

Chinese are a good sounding (to my ears) cheap tube, but they tend to have a high attrition rate after a few months... Buy extras.

[markD]

thanks guys. the big issue is that i have to do 2 heads at once, and the tubes i normally go for - the winged C's - would cost me $240 just for the tubes. the preamp tubes i normally use - the JJecc83s - would cost me 229.38 for the 12 preamp tubes....that's $469.38 for all the tubes.

i have about a month to get my heads in order before we head out. we got tapped to do a small support run for these real estate investor parties in the carribean through december, so the heads have to be transported. it's complicated and it sucks because i don't really know the details of the gigs - some are outside with only vocal support. others are indoor with a full PA....

long story short, i need decent and reliable for NOW - and i'll go back to the good shit later....

thanks for the suggestions

[horns666]

Yeah, with my Uber the Tung Sol and JJs are NO comparison. Even with my old settings and gain maxed! Whenever I have friends playing it, it gives me goosebumbs. Including John's friend "Mark", John C of Beyond Fear, and bud Paul, who's a monster player. It always makes me step back and go woooah.."Wow, that's my fuggin' tone??!!..cool!!"

There's one very important thing that is commonly overlooked. You MUST dial in your amp to drums, at the minimal. What you think sounds pleasant on your own will change with other intruments. To sit perfectly in a mess of freqs is an art. So if you cut the highs (sizzle) to please your ears, chances are it will sound like mud with a bunch of crashing cymbals, toms and a bashing snare. If you push too much lows, you'll be fighting with the bass. I learned this while doing my demo. I love my Bogner's tone with the lows cranked, but it walked all over the bass. We had to push the bass mids like crazy just to hear it. The one thing that did convey VERY well, even on its own is the Uber's gain being maxed! My friend was doing a recording level check and told me to "play anything". If I'd known it was recording, I would have played something good. I Just threw out a sloppy silly "eruption" thingy to get a good level...certainly nothing to brag about. But the tone with gain maxed is awesome! Especially for a Tascam cassette 4 trk with a cheap vocal mic? The gain maxed sounds incredible, especially the PICK ATTACK!! I rarely hear that much pick attack on Uber clips including George Lynch's!! Its very focused, articulate with alot of definition ..So, Its in the hands. Its there, if ya wanna listen. I'll be playing for keeps on a youtube vid for my friend's guitar co..I'll make sure that's cool.

Luckily I have a live in drummer to tweak my amps with. My son will be 14 this weekend..he's has alot of energy and power. That's the way people are going to hear your amp anywhoo.

Rudy..as far as pedals, John's friend "Mark" mods various stomps such as TS-9, SD-1 and ect. My friend Paul is in three bands and swears by Mark's modded pedal. He also favors a Maxon 808 or whatever their improved version of the TS9 is..but they cost about about 2 bills. Mark and John must stop over and check out my tone..with drums of course!!

[slayer]

Tung Sol pre-amp tubes are it man They can bring an amp alive like no other pre-amp tube I have ever tried. Now, for all purpose and price, the EH tubes are a great buy.

[horns666]

Tung Sol pre-amp tubes are it man They can bring an amp alive like no other pre-amp tube I have ever tried. Now, for all purpose and price, the EH tubes are a great buy.

Yep..they are steroids for the Uberschall!!!

I must try 'em with the Marshall!

They rule..without a doubt!!

[Endrik]

is midrange honk when you play palm muted rhythm parts and the sound is kinda sterile and goes "bump bump bump bump" instead of "chugga chugga chugga" ?