My rig VS noise

[rickydekker]

okay so right now i have a jackson preformer, and a gibson flying v, a jackson/kramer project, and some pieced out guitars lying around that need bridges/pickups/paint/whatnot.

i also have a peavey VK212 amp, and a jackson reference 50 head and jackson 4x12 cab. [the jackon head needs caps replaced which is why i havent sold the peavey yet]

as for pedals i have a mxr phase 90 and ibanez super metal in front of the amp, and a digitech dsp 128 and mxr ten band EQ in the loop.

i get a decent sound... for what i can afford, but i have so much background noise and hiss that i cant turn my amps volume past "1"

and no i dont have any picures right now except on my myspace. lol

i cant get the hiss down no matter what i do. the phaser adds noise, the sm-9 adds noise, the amp is noisy, im gonna have a freakin seazure.

how can i get all this noise down? and dont tell me to get a boss pedal cause i hate boss with a dying passion in the pit of my soul, i stick to vintage gear as much as ic an, and analog gear as much as i can...

[horns666]

That's pretty normal with effects running in front an amp. I would run the phase, EQ, and digetech in the loop where they are MUCH quieter..and your super metal in the front. Never run distortion units in the loop, but effects are ok. You need a noise gate..be it a BOSS NS-2 or a rack mount hush. Maybe just eliminate the biggest noise culprit for now.

I use a G Major..it does more than I will ever need. including a awsome noise gate, and tuner!! You could get rid of all that and replace it with a used G-Major..that's what I would do in a heart beat. Run that in the loop and the distorion in the front if you must. Don't that amp have enough gain without the need for a stomp?

[Cleveland Metal]

Yeah, the biggest culprit being he Ibanez Super Metal.... Maybe examine alternatives...

[levantin]

Bill, just out of curiosity, why shouldn't we put distortion in the loop? Does it hurt the amp?

[horns666]

Bill, just out of curiosity, why shouldn't we put distortion in the loop? Does it hurt the amp?

No it won't hurt the amp.

I was always told not to run distortion units in the loops of amps in general. I've tried it before and they always sounded like ass. distortion units sound best in front of the amp. everything esle goes in the loop, delay, chorus, flanger, eqs ect..they sound better and quieter

[Cleveland Metal]

Well, you want the distortion pedal as the "first" gain stage (as they're generally designed to be), and then you also of course get to distort the original signal from the guitar directly. Also, with he pedal first, you get to boost the signal with it to overdrive the front end of the amp. All this gets you better effectiveness from the pedal.

If you put it in the loop... Typically, you're putting the best gain stage farther back and now you're amplifying the lesser gain stages, not the best procedure I'm thinking. Also, some pedals may not like a line signal that many loops have, and the loop may not like the return from the pedal either. Depends on the loop there. Some take pedals better than others.

You are also distorting the signal that is already somewhat preamped (some pedals don't like a serious signal like that coming in to them), andthat generally makes a pedal sound pretty crappy.

There's prolly other reasons, and better ways to explain some of it. YMMV

[levantin]

Thanks guys. Just wondered.

[roodyrocker]

Also, some pedals may not like a line signal that many loops have, and the loop may not like the return from the pedal either. Depends on the loop there. Some take pedals better than others.

I've tied pedals through the loop on a few amps, not distortion pedals. Some work better than others in the loop on some amps and some would not work well at all for me. Anyway, about a year ago I had some vintage MXR pedals and although they had a nice sound they were way too noisy so I sold them off. Of my remaining pedals, I can run them in the loop on my Randall RM100 but not on my Bogner even when I tried an Ebtech Line Level Shifter. The Bogner just didn't like pedals in its loop at all. Also, my Retro-Sonic phaser sounds good upfront but like crap in the loop. Before that I had an Electroharmonix Small Stone phaser which robbed me of volume when it was on so it got replaced by the Retrosonic. Currently I'm working on putting some Eventide pedals together to try upfront with the Bogner. You just have to try them as each amp responds differently to pedals up front, in the loop, or combinations.

[rickydekker]

i maxx out the gain on my amp, and for solos or ares where i need sum more gain i use the super metal, and the output on the super metal is up all the wayy, and the gain is at about 10:00 or so, so it adds a bit of volume andgain, and the EQ setting dont change the noise at all, so im not gonna bother explaining that.

the phaser sounds terribble in the loop, and no my valveking doesnt have enough gain, i boost my gain +12DB with the EQ also, and still dont have enough gain, thats why i want a mesa boogie mark IV but thts outts my price range.

once the jackson head is working right im gonna sell off/trade the peavey cause i dont even like it. my jackson head has so much more singing saturated gain and sustain....

what about a MXR noise reduction unit of some type? i forget what its called but i know they make one.

also, the amps mids are always beetween one and three at the highest, and when i need more cut signal the EQ cuts the mids -12DB. it might sound crazy but i love the tones im getting with the eq and without it, but i still never have enough gain...

back on subject now...

[rickydekker]

Yeah, the biggest culprit being he Ibanez Super Metal.... Maybe examine alternatives...

well i actually just had it repaired, and now am lving the way t shapes my sound, im never gonna sell it now. but it IS a bit noisy

[toejam]

i maxx out the gain on my amp, and for solos or ares where i need sum more gain i use the super metal, and the output on the super metal is up all the wayy, and the gain is at about 10:00 or so, so it adds a bit of volume andgain, and the EQ setting dont change the noise at all, so im not gonna bother explaining that.

That's some of your problem right there. With an already distorted amp, you should be using an overdrive pedal for more gain instead of a distortion pedal. With the distortion pedal, you should be keeping the gain down much lower and then boosting the level. Distortion pedals are mainly made to be used into an amp's clean channel.
With an OD pedal, you can also boost the level, and then turning up a little gain won't be as harsh as the distortion pedal. But with all that gain running into your amp, there's bound to be some more noise anyway, so a good noise gate/noise suppressor pedal will help, like the MXR Smart Gate or the Boss NS2.

[Cleveland Metal]

well i actually just had it repaired, and now am lving the way t shapes my sound, im never gonna sell it now. but it IS a bit noisy

I hate when that happens... Ya have to have that necessary evil cuz ya like the sound of it and it comes with a price,

I became a bad man on the volume knob and volume pedal when I loved my equipment that had the hydro-electric dam sound going on... Nothing wrong with that as long as you 'can" control it.... Added advantage of that is that when anyone picks up your stuff, it sounds terrible and they put it down fast haha... But, you get used to controlling and do quite well with it...

Been there a lot, and still sorta am as even tho my equipment is high dollar stuff, I run so much gain, it gets hard to control....

[rickydekker]

That's some of your problem right there. With an already distorted amp, you should be using an overdrive pedal for more gain instead of a distortion pedal. With the distortion pedal, you should be keeping the gain down much lower and then boosting the level. Distortion pedals are mainly made to be used into an amp's clean channel.
With an OD pedal, you can also boost the level, and then turning up a little gain won't be as harsh as the distortion pedal. But with all that gain running into your amp, there's bound to be some more noise anyway, so a good noise gate/noise suppressor pedal will help, like the MXR Smart Gate or the Boss NS2.

its an OD pedal, not really a distortion pedal. it can work as a low gain dist, but not really... and ive tried the mxr zakk wylde pedal, and mine is way quieter than that POS. i dont think the sm-9 is the thing giving me so much noise anyways, its all the phaser! and i had it sent to mxr to get is fixed, but they said "great pedal, passed all tests" bullshit!!!! i love meh phaser, but its so noisy

[toejam]

Ah. You said Super Metal, and usually pedals with the word "metal" in them are distortion pedals.

[Cleveland Metal]

That's what I would figure as well...