Power Tube Tone

[lhrocker]

If you are playing at lower volumes where most of the tone/distortion comes from the preamp, does the power tubes contribute much to the overall tone?

[Endrik]

of course but it's pretty marginal compared to the effect when you crank it up.

My Mesa MKIII 300 is incredibly loud but also a great bedroom amp.
It has a Master volume knob and a Lead Master knob (preamp, channel 3 volume).
I usually set the Lead Master to 4,5 to be in balance with the clean channel.
At home I put the Master to 1 or 1,1 or 1,2 or 1,3 or 1,4 or 1,5 or sometimes even a little bit more... depends who is at home... on 2 it crazy loud... the whole neighbourhood will hear it clearly and loudly.
Anyway on the levels between 1 and 2 it sounds really really good.
But when I put the Lead Master to 2 or something like that and the Master volume to 7, then the volume has the same level as when the Lead Master is at 4,5 and Master is at 1,7 or something like that. But the tone is A LOT better. It really brings in another dimension.

So it's cool if the amp has different volume knobs which allow the power amp to be cranked for great tone but also keeping the volume level low so it wouldn't kill small animals in your backyard.

[Cleveland Metal]

IMO, yeah. A fair amount really... Whether it is good or not, is up to the individual. At low volumes tho, lots of solid state amps can sound great, if you have a good sounding preamp of course. If your preamp tone is iffy, then the tube power amp may just lend some nice appeal to it whether the volume is low or high.

Even at lower volumes, I think the tube power amps are just a bit more musicially appealing and lend a less harsh feel to the tone. It definitely shows a LOT more between the two types as volume increases tho.

Nonetheless, I've gotten some extremely nice results from a good preamp into a solid state at low volumes.

I have somewhat designed my tone around tube preamp distortion (CAE3+se) after I'd fought manipulating power tube distortion in the clubs for years with my tone changing every night from differing conditions effecting the amount of volume I'd use. Was often hard to nail "my" tone every night like that.

I eventually just bought a tube power amp that was overkill (VHT2150), and it's tone didn't change much on volume changes, and then I used the preamp to make my tone, with the general nuance of cool tube power amplification. I dialed my preamp tone to work great with the oversize tube power amp and swore by them. Still basically do. Blah blah blah...

I did however need a tube change last year, and went over to a really nice high end Bose solid state amp for a while. Which I was pretty much playing at low volume in my house. I dialed my tube preamp to sound good with it, and really was impressed with it to be honest. It was more crisp and concise feeling, and had a very wide freq response. Until I had to play it loud with the band that is. Then unfortunately it sounded pretty rough.

After fixing the VHT, I went back to it and although it is a pretty transparent amp, I did fid that it affected the tone a lot. And had just had to redial the preamp appropriately to sound roughly the same with it.

Guess what I'm getting at, is that there is a difference. And furthermore, it varies among the different tube amps as well. Solid state amps pretty much reproduce a decent freq range pretty faithfully at lower volume and I think most good ones sound pretty much the same.

On the other hand, you will find LOTS of variation in tube amps (even at lower volumes) due to different designs, voicings, tubes, gain structures etc...

At the end of the day, whatever works, works... I most always have to say tho, at higher volumes, tube power amps appeal most to me, and tend cut through the mix well without piercing your ears as much...

[markD]

+1 power amp tone seems to be there more than we realize. go play a a solid state amp...to my ears, regardless of the volume it is always stiff and sterile.

tube amps like the boogie mk4 and my rivera m100 - and others that have pentode/triode switches and half/full power switches can really work more of the pwer amp into the sound.

[Spivonious]

Short answer -> Yes. Even though the power tubes aren't overloaded/distorting they still lend their tone to the signal going through them.

[Cleveland Metal]

Short answer??? It's tubes man! You're sposed to ramble for pages and speak in esotoric terms that can't be defined.

Get it right! haha...

[markD]

Hahahahaha

[lhrocker]

So if I put EL34's, or 6L6's or KT88's or whatever into my amp (Randall RM100), I should hear differences,

[Spivonious]

Short answer??? It's tubes man! You're sposed to ramble for pages and speak in esotoric terms that can't be defined.

Get it right! haha...

I'll remember that for next time.

[horns666]

Vaccum tubes must be maintained much like your own tube. Free of debris and abuse. Tubes, well, they glow..see. Solid State doesn't!

..and that's all you need to know.

For the fuck of it..I put 12ax7s in the poweramp and EL34s in the preamp, and the shit blew up!

Maybe it wasn't biased correctly and whatnots..

[Spivonious]

So if I put EL34's, or 6L6's or KT88's or whatever into my amp (Randall RM100), I should hear differences,

I'd liken the changes to switching pickups, so we're not talking huge changes, but there are definite differences, even at low volumes.

[Cleveland Metal]

So if I put EL34's, or 6L6's or KT88's or whatever into my amp (Randall RM100), I should hear differences,

Not as vivid at lower volumes, but all three of those tubes are VERY different at loud volume. All have their "niche" but I usually like the KT88 for clean headroom and wide freq reproduction. 6L6 and KT88 are somewhat more comparable. EL34 is definitely a bit different.

[Cleveland Metal]

For the fuck of it..I put 12ax7s in the poweramp and EL34s in the preamp, and the shit blew up!

Maybe it wasn't biased correctly and whatnots..

Shoud have used KT-88... They take a bit more effort, but well worth it... And, after working for Bose so many years, Mark is good with a hammer.

[horns666]

Fuggin Mark..look at him..that's awesome!!!

[Bert]

MMmmmm..... tubes....