Tube amp distortion vs. pedal distortion... and player choise

[dx1556]

Best distortion pedal ever = Lovepedal Purple Plexi 800

It only really does one sound, but you 80's fans will LOVE that sound.

Unfortunately they're also like $200 and you would still need a different pedal for more "modern" metal tones...

[emperor_black]

On the gear page forums, they talk about stacking distortion after overdrive pedal or is is overdrive after distortion? Not sure. Anyone know what they're talking 'bout or even use such a setup?

[jgcable]

I have never heard the words Metal Zone and Musical used in the same sentence.
To my ears.. the Metal Zone sounds like a small can of bees. At home it sounds great. Live.... your tone VANISHES into thin air.

[horns666]

I buy 3 channel amps myself so I have a crunch channel and then a solo channel with more compression, sag and sustain.

I prefer amp distortion but I play about once a month at a Hamer Jam where the guy has a backline of amps - mostly Dr Z'a and a couple TopHats. I have a really good distortion pedal that aboslutely KILLS when plugged in the the Dr Z's.

But thats because the pedal is so friggen good. The amps are clean and the my pedal has two sides - it was built custom - it is literally 2 distortion pedals in one box with two separate stomp switches so I can run each one separately or combine both sides together. Plus I have a shitload ot tone shaping controls on each side.

Mike Z always has a TS-9 ready for me whenever I played one of his many amps. I played 'em all..he's a good man that is meticulous in making amps and tone..but they're just not for me. He knew that. Mikes' a great guy..I miss hangin' around his shop.

The Bogner Uberschall..that's for me.

I agree with John G about the metal zone..man, what a harsh fuzz box that fucker is..yuck!

[jtr]

I haven't used a pedal for years (30+) but then again I've played out with Marshall JMP from 76- 04 and now a Fuchs.

[Biff Montana]

Stacking can also be called cascading...it's where one OD/Dist unit drives another OD/Dist unit. One unit is set for a mild OD/Dist tone while the second unit is set for a heavier OD/Dist tone. If you run this set up into a clean amp you get 4 tones with two pedals; the clean amp tone; the mild OD/Dist tone; the heavier tone; and, when both units are on, the tone of both OD/Dist pedals...which is usually a lead tone.

In my experiences the units should be wired as such:
Guitar---> OD/Dist 1---> OD/Dist 2---> amp.
Set OD/Dist 2 for the mild OD/Dist tone
and set OD/Dist 1 for the heavier OD/Dist tone.

A few things to remember when doing this is not all pedals work well with all amps, and not all pedals, work well together. For example I've run 2 original TS-9 Tube Screamers into a Marshall JCM 800 and/or a Marshall 30th Anniversary Model. Those sounded great but that same setup didn't fair so well with my Peavey Classic 50. For the Peavey I used an MXR Distortion II (yes I said Distortion II) and a Boss DS-1 (un-modified). (BTW: all amps got run through the same Marshall 4x12 bottom)

It’s also possible to simplify the process by finding a pedal that has two units in one and is capable of cascading (stacking) both of sections together. (I believe the Fulltone GT-500 is one that cascades)

Now going back to the original post as to what’s better, tube amp distortion or distortion out of a box... it's a trick question because there is no right answer--everyone has different tastes and many players like to have a few different distortion tones available. Players like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, and Andy Timmons, can use two maybe three distortion settings in one song. Zakk Wylde, Lamb of God, AC/DC, or Slipknot might not need that many settings in one song.

Bottom line is, if you want more options, get a few stomp boxes OD/Distortion pedals and see what happens. If you have an amp with three or more channels you may have all the tones you need.

I hope this helps,
Peace Out

[toejam]

I have never heard the words Metal Zone and Musical used in the same sentence.
To my ears.. the Metal Zone sounds like a small can of bees. At home it sounds great. Live.... your tone VANISHES into thin air.

A lot of people like that pedal because it's got the parametric EQ thing going. Pat O'Brien from Cannibal Corpse uses one of those to boost his Mesa Recto, and he uses extreme gain, and his tone kicks ass! Watch his crazy ass playing!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhyv_xEUCsg

[metalchurch79]

A lot of people like that pedal because it's got the parametric EQ thing going. Pat O'Brien from Cannibal Corpse uses one of those to boost his Mesa Recto, and he uses extreme gain, and his tone kicks ass! Watch his crazy ass playing!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhyv_xEUCsg

I use it because of the parametric EQ as well.
I dont really like the nasally high end on it, but I back the High off to about 12 o'clock and then use the High knob on my Engl preamp to compansate.

I really like the mid section of the MT-2 alot, and the Engl has a mid boost, and a presence knob which really adds alot to my sound.
My MT-2/ Engl-620 are a great combination, and I dont foresee myself using anything else in the near future.

Steve Swanson from Six Feet Under uses a Boss Metal Zone as well, and I love his tone alot.

[horns666]

Joe..Pat O is just a sick muthafugga.

Hey, I don't get along with Rectos..but some dudes kill with 'em. What works for some won't work for others. You gotta go what works for you. There's no other rule that applies with amps/gear.

It's kinda worthless asking advice on what gear to buy..unless theres' like-minded music, players into the same music and tone styles and what gear it takes to achieve it.

People into Eric Johnson's, or 80's metal tone won't know the first thing how to get achieve more modern tones of Nevermore. I often find that "modern" still means NU or Korn to many. I came from the dawn of the 80's and stayed in touch with metal..so I know how to achieve both classic and moder true metal tones. Modern metal tones are basically 80's metal tones on steroids..which means I could play Arch Enemy and just a heavy versions of "Kiss of death", or Aint Talkin' bout love"..even on a 7 string.

To me Grunge, Nu never existed..I didn't acknowledge that shit. I was too busy shredding and writing metal during that ridiculous time.

[metalchurch79]

Joe..Pat O is just a sick muthafugga.

Hey, I don't get along with Rectos..but some dudes kill with 'em. What works for some won't work for others. You gotta go what works for you. There's no other rule that applies with amps/gear.

It's kinda worthless asking advice on what gear to buy..unless theres' like-minded music, players into the same music and tone styles and what gear it takes to achieve it.

People into Eric Johnson's, or 80's metal tone won't know the first thing how to get achieve more modern tones of Nevermore. I often find that "modern" still means NU or Korn to many. I came from the dawn of the 80's and stayed in touch with metal..so I know how to achieve both classic and moder true metal tones. Modern metal tones are basically 80's metal tones on steroids..which means I could play Arch Enemy and just a heavy versions of "Kiss of death", or Aint Talkin' bout love"..even on a 7 string.

To me Grunge, Nu never existed..I didn't acknowledge that shit. I was too busy shredding and writing metal during that ridiculous time.

Quoted for truth. Excellent post Horns!

[Endrik]

People into Eric Johnson's, or 80's metal tone won't know the first thing how to get achieve more modern tones of Nevermore. I often find that "modern" still means NU or Korn to many. I came from the dawn of the 80's and stayed in touch with metal..so I know how to achieve both classic and moder true metal tones. Modern metal tones are basically 80's metal tones on steroids..which means I could play Arch Enemy and just a heavy versions of "Kiss of death", or Aint Talkin' bout love"..even on a 7 string.

now Bill you are talking out of your ass

first there are plenty of folks who can dial in tones for every type of music.

your hate for nu metal sometimes makes you write some pretty weird nonsense.. ok so you hate it but I don't understand why you are talking shit about their guitar sounds... if you actually LISTEN then it's pretty much the same as modern true metal tones... modern hi gain amps, low tunings etc.
The difference is that nu bands actually sound better on the records because they had good producers, sound engineers and mix engineers... a lot of them were the same guys who produced classic rock and 80's bands and that is a fact.

Kiss of Death and Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love with Arch Enemy tone? Well you can play Black Sabbath with a tuba too. Doesn't mean it sounds similar to the original recording.

[horns666]

now Bill you are talking out of your ass

first there are plenty of folks who can dial in tones for every type of music.

your hate for nu metal sometimes makes you write some pretty weird nonsense.. ok so you hate it but I don't understand why you are talking shit about their guitar sounds... if you actually LISTEN then it's pretty much the same as modern true metal tones... modern hi gain amps, low tunings etc.
The difference is that nu bands actually sound better on the records because they had good producers, sound engineers and mix engineers... a lot of them were the same guys who produced classic rock and 80's bands and that is a fact.

Kiss of Death and Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love with Arch Enemy tone? Well you can play Black Sabbath with a tuba too. Doesn't mean it sounds similar to the original recording.

Nah, that's not weird nonsense..I'll give you weird fuggin' nonsense!!!

E..You KNOW I could play Van Halen with an amp dialed to Nevermore, and bass like nobody's fuggin' biz..you heard it, boom done!. Many people haven't a clue how to do either, they just talk and post bullshit. "Talking out my ass"...nah, I'm just speaking the fucking truth. I knew many awesome players that were embarassed to "shred" during the 90's because it was no longer "cool". Not cool to do what took thousands of hours of woodshedding to accomplish? They threw the towel, and sold the fuck out. People that embraced those trends became out of touch with themselves, trying to do what was popular and not what was in their hearts, and failed miserably (Metallica, Megadeth, Queensryche, Skid Row, Ratt, Fates Warning, Dokken, Dream Thater, Lynch Mob, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Europe, and countless others) . While guys like me ignored those trends and evolved my original tone to more modern realms of metal but keeping the complexity and intregrity of why I loved metal in the first place. Fuck the producers..shit is shit, good music is good music. There's a difference of down-tuned monkeys...and players like Glen Drover, Jeff Loomis, Roy Z, Tony Mac, Rusty Cooley, Chris Broderick, Steve Vai and Even Uli Roth and many other real guitarist that down tuned for a heavier sound but still kept the integrity of their art. While Korn in my shit, Limp Dick and Kirk Hamster fumbled fingered their way thru dummied down bullshit for over ten years..that even included the beloved George Wigger "Smoke my pole" Lynch, and Eddie Van Halen who hasn't wrote a fucking thing worth a shit since sacred groove in '93..and FUCK in '90. It's fucking almost 2009..do the math. 27 years ago Van Halen was kickin' ass in Drop D..that fucker was one of the guitar gods that started that shit. That's much different that fuggin' Korn..may they die slowly in a infernal bukkake for an eternity..especlally that Jesus wannabe fuckface..fuck him and his ass..and his ass's ass...that retarded, delusional cocksucker...I'd baptize him in goo!

Fuck Tom Morello too, I'd love to beat his fuggin' ass..I hate that cocksucker! RAGTM..nails on a fuggin' chalkboard to me. Man, I wished they reunite and died in a freak chicken McNugget accident..because that's all they are..processed lips and assholes for consunption.

You wanna say that's talkin' out my ass..so be it. The fact of the matter is I loathed those fucking dummied down, one finger chord monkeys. They can all line up and suck me twice!! Now I can outshred alot of "players" that used to be awesome once upon a time but sold out for over a decade, became fat, slow and lazy..while I kept busting ass, honing my chops and tone. While constanly keeping my finger on the pulse of evolution of metal, and knew where it was going before it got there. I gave my demo to two major players and MY riff appeared on both of their cds..Jeff Loomis and Glen Drover. Those guys are true modern metal/shred warriors tuned to D, B, as I am. You don't see them stealing from the likes of creed, limp cock, lincon fuck, Slipnuts, or Godfuck...helll fuggin' nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. My fuggin riffs....my fuggin' riffs!!!! They stuck to their guns and stayed true and was on their game when metal returned. shit production or not..That's the goddam truth. Those metal bros are anti-Nu from the start. Their tone is far from anything remotely fuggin' "nu"

Here's another fact. I invested about 70K of my hard earned money supporting a scene that the majority didn't give a flying fuck about for 15 years. It is my one true passion besides shootin' my goo..METAL..and I'll defend it tooth and fuggin' nail...and do it viciously! It's my lifestyle, always was and will be. Without guys like me..metal wouldn't fuggin' exist! I need metal and metal needs guys like me and we are few and far between. Here's another fact of life..I'm a bad motherfucker. The baddest anyone in my circles fuggin' knows, and the first one they come to when shit hits the fan. If you knew me, you'd instantly think bad ass motherfucker. The real deal..not those like those assfucks in the movies that retards worship. Look at my credentials, I live in a fuggin' gothic church with 30 ft ceilings, the best Marshall tone I ever heard, a Bogner Uberschall that rules, a beautiful wife that'll do anything for me for 25 years with a cunt that can crack walnuts, most girls fuggin' dig me, most guys wanna be my buddy, a bad ass vette and a cobra, guns, guitars that would make most people shit or drool and I know how to use 'em, My kid is one of the best drummers in Cleveland and kills most guys on this forum on guitar and bass at age 14..my demon spawn, my credit score is 8 fuggin' somethin', my pud is heavy with girth and engorged constantly..and I am the funniest motherfucker anyone fuggin' knows..hands down. comedians are fuggin' retards except Kinison/Clay and both are dead. I don't care one fuck if a chick cums..as long as I do twice, and I eat their ass for my pleasure not theirs. I'm a fuggin' cocky dickhead of the highest calibre. I say whatever the fuck I want without giving a shit what any jerkoff thinks, because when it comes down to it..they're nothing but assholes. Everyone is an asshole except for my friends. If your not a friend of mine ..you're an asshole. There's two knds of people in this world, friends and assholes. I have a few friends and the rest are assholes..I don't like assholes..I don't make friends with assholes. I like to keep things simple. Why complicate things?

So with that said..I'm always right and everybody is fuggin' wrong. If someone doesn't agree with me..they're an asshole..just a hapless clueless fuggin' assholes..that's what I think!

I NEVER take advice from anyone less fortunate than myself..and I'm the most fortunate motherfucker I fuggin' know. see above reasons why. The JCF rocks..but would it rock as half as hard without my ass...hell fuck no!! I rule this place like I rule my own my fuggin' world. That makes me the closest thing to a "god" I'll ever know.

Hey man I got into the fight of a lifetime yesterday. I may have to go to the hospital because some fuck's blood and teeth tore the skin completely off my right hand, and I may have an infection. I left him for dead. I KNOW he doesn't have a nose anymore, that's gone! He was bald and my wife couldn't tell if I was stompin' his face or the back of his head..because it was just bloody fuggin' mess. Hey, he insisted on it..so I obliged. That's another story..I'll share that one on another thread. Its definitely worth fuggin' sharing!

So wassup Brutha E..???

Since I'm on a fuggin' roll, Alot of you motherfuckers don't know metal existed after 1989..WTF???!! Always talking about the same ol' hasbeens, that sucked balls even back then. Jesus tap dancin fuggin' Christ already. WTF???!! Hey Man, I loved Randy Rhoads too...but do you think we really need another 1000 threads of him??? I love Dime, who doesn't..does anyone here still not know who he is..maybe we should make another 3000 threads of him too. Oh, BTW amp advice. Hey what are your thoughts on a 5150? They are VERY rare amps that Peavey only made 10 of them for Eddie back in 1990..has anyone ever heard one of those yet? The elusive 20 year old 5150.. Unless you were in prison since 1985 having butt sex, when Tracy Lords was suggin' dick at 15 years old, why would someone in their right fucking mind ask such a redundant, retarded question like that? But I'm "Talkin' out my ass"..me...me!!! :ROTF:

I could tell whenever I've been here, because everyone "in the know" seems to be active and on the ball. Whenever I leave, its the same old 80's worshipping fanboys suggin' on Chris Degarmo's worthless fuggin' limp dick. And the same old dorks that feel safe to post their lame shit because horns isn't here to make fun of them. Vinny Fuggin' Vincent, what the fuggin' fuck??!!. Man, I'd love to meet Vinny Vincent so I could tell that hack what a peice of shit player he is..who gives a fuck about Vinny "freakshow" Vincent??!!!

Better yet Coldplay..are you fuggin' kidding me??? Cold fuggin' Play. Is this the fuggin' JCF (Jackson/Charvel/Forum)???!!..There's guys here that are shameless enough to admit they fuggin' love one of the pussiest bands ever to exist..Coldplay..what the fuck is wrong with that picture. I'm surprised I haven't seen any fuggin' Air Supply, or Barry Manilow threads. The gayness here is fuggin' overwhelming sometimes. To tell you the truth. I've been busy with my family. I'll sneak a peak in here and this place is as exciting as fuggin' insurance seminar..you boring motherfuckers! Fuck, this stupid thread is prolly the most exciting thing to read in the the last 6 fuggin' months. You fuckers love this shit. Even if you hate it..you still love it, and lick it like Joes' supple tits..because nobody but me has the fuggin' balls to say this stupid fuggin' bullshit. Because I truly truly truly don't give a fuck.

..and I hope your spitting coffee all over your laptaps right now..you dumbfucks!! I hope I made you short the motherfuckers out...you dicks! Especially you Robert Burns. I know I owe you a PM..but after seeing your tighty whities..kiss my ass!!! What the fuck is wrong with you? You're on youtube..the whole world saw your fat ass?? why??. To hell with questions about tone..first ask yourself..does tone really matter while prancing around like Homer fuggin' Simpson. You gave me something to think about when I'm trying not to pop my cork too fast..and that's disturbing in itself. The image of your fat ass at any moment is an abomination of humanity. I wanna PM you a picture of my scrotum smooshed against glass..so it looks like the head of an octopuss in an aqaurium..just to get back at you, ya bastid. Yeah the MP-1 doesn't sound half bad. Its prolly one of the best I've heard. But the JMP-1 is much warmer and it TRULY sounds like a Marshall if that means anything. That digitech GSP 2110 is "dated" sounding IMO!!. Alot of players used those in the late 80's, and I owned one for a while. OK at that time, but very generic, and extremely processed sounding...just thin and dead. I still have tapes of them on recordings I did. They sound like shit.

Hail Satan, for he worships my monolithic fleshy precipice, and bless the baby Jesus in the manger with no MTV crib for a bed!!! The son of God is using a donkey turd as pillow. Don't ya thing Mary and Joseppi would be charged with child endangering these days. That would be on the fuggin' 6 O' clock news and everyone would be pissed off. ..saying "I hope they go to jail"..making that poor baby freeze to death in that barn..laying there with all that animal feces..WTF????!!!

I feel sorry for baby Jesus..no wonder he grew up all rebellious and pissed off!!!

E, Bro, there's something you may have forgot..I'm the fuggin' man. >I< am the METAL "elite" that keeps it free of contamination of gayness, and I wave that fuggin' flag with pride and honour...those are facts!!


Love ,

Bill Z Bub

Eat some figgy pudding You Motherfuckers!!!

Here's what JCF fanboys worship..dried, up, pathetic, assclowns like this asshole..

A fuggin' ridiculous middle aged misfuck ..

[Endrik]

Too much "herbs" huh?

You know I can't even count how many of that kind of posts I have seen here

You know that kind of an elitist-true-metal attitude is scaring a lot of potential listeners/supporters of true metal away. There are people who would give it a change but then there's a bunch of elitists who repeat their same shit over and over again.. "true metal rules, fuck that nu shit" etc. And people are thinking "well if those fans are that kind of a close minded morons then the music is probably like that too.. so fuck that shit".

I don't care if you think nu metal sucks or not. Goddamn it's 2008.. it's been dead for years... what can it possibly do to you anymore?
Anyway fuck it... I'm talking about some historical/cultural facts not about opinions...

I doesn't have anything do to with "the suckiness or the goodness" of that music.
The fact is that one of the reasons why Nu Metal was born or let's say got it's trademark characteristics was the musical gear. It all begin in the early 90's during the time when Mesa Boogie came out with the Rectifier amplifier, the first true modern hi gain amp... one of a kind during that time. Nu Metal bands started using them from the day one. They made those amps popular. Many other companies saw that shit is popular and started to make their own versions of modern hi gain amps.
"True" metal bands started using those amps/gear later. And they had so many options because the popularity of nu metal had caused a totally new kind of musical equipment boom.
Nu metal wasn't the creator of those new type of musical gear but it was born because of that... at some point. Those amps and 7 string guitar or guitars with really low tuning.
They weren't the pioneers but popularizers of that kinds of gear. They got their ideas from others just like every new type of art is born... it gets ideas from something and then changes it to its own thing.
Some not very well known records such as King's X "Dogman", Motley Crue's self titeled album (and also Pantera albums) had an impact on nu metal recordings sound wise. The sound on Dogman while being progressive rock music is pretty much that same as it's in nu metal or as it's much later in "true" metal.
The other thing was 7-string guitars. The pioneers of nu metal, Korn... Munkey and Head were big Steve Vai fans and got 7 string guitars because of him. And they developed a totally new style of guitar playing. No one had done something like that... with that kind of low tuning and a new kind of amp sound.

Just ask Tommy... he lived next door to the Korn guys in Huntington Beach before they were famous. And Tommy saw them rehearse and it was a music which no one had tone before and with a totally new kind of sound.
That music being good or bad is irrelevant right now what matters is that it was a totally new thing.

And that new sound went to true metal. They started using the same kind of amps, guitars and tunings too.
So when you say that you can play VH with Arch Enemy sound but it has nothing to do with nu metal sound... then that is beyond silly.

When you have played VH licks for decades then of course you can get the same vibe with absolutely any set-up. But that doesn't mean the sound characteristics are the same. Just record VH licks with brutal tone and compare them to the records. The feel is there but not the sound.
I can play Albert King's licks with the right feel, nail the vibrato and bends with a 7 string guitar and 5150 but does it make the sound exactly the same as on Albert's recordings in the 60's? NO!!!!

But when I'm playing with a hi gain amp... I can do Pantera or Nu metal riffs and I get close to both of the sounds which are on the records. Get it???

[Partial @ Marshall]

Good god y'all! If I wasn't reading this on company time I would have said "fuck it" an hour ago. Nice rant Horns...

[bibz]

Horns; That was the most subtle and elegant wordscaping I've ever seen! As poetic as any shakespearean doctrine, comes the classic 'does tone really matter while prancing around like Homer fuggin' Simpson.'

E; The 'modern' sound comes from european bands though not american. 5150's moreso then recto's cause swedes couldn't afford those when the pots were being stirred. The carcass/at the gates/dark tranquility/in flames/soilwork stuff that exploded into, well in flames exploded into korn

As for the scaring people away thing thats kinda what keeps metal metal really. I like supporting people that have an interest in it and I certainly don't shove my music into peoples ears by any means, but you pretty much know right off the bat if your into it. Make it too accessible and theres money in it for the industry and that rush generally ruins the artistry and creation aspects that made the original so great and pure. Obviously a massive grey area and not fact by any means, but thats what happens with numetal/metalcore etc. The tides of time in any cultural element sway, musics a very literal observation of that to me. (seriously, is anyone going to understand what I just said? Course not, this is now a rant thread fuggums! )

As for the current climate, its metalcore and emo and thats fucking scary to me. I'd rather be emo then metalcore!