Tube amp distortion vs. pedal distortion... and player choise

[metalchurch79]

Agreed Ben, there's alot of mislabeled stuff out there making the "Metal" name a whore, and I hate it.

I group Disturbed in with the rest of the "Ozzfest bands."
There were only select few, who actually played an Ozzfest that was real metal.
Black Sabbath
Slayer
Judas Priest
Sepultura
Pantera

Being an outcast and uncorformist is the whole premise behind what metal stands for. Now everyone's wearing band shirts and throwin the horns up like they are some body...
I disgress....

[VitaminG]

You're suggesting this is a bad thing? I would rather things stayed this way than metal become mainstream.

Endrik has always been about selling the greatest number of albums & banging the greatest number of chicks. He and you have differing views about this topic.

I also hate improper use of the term metal, especially when classifying bands. Disturbed is NOT METAL; power chords and the ability to sound like a chimp make you look mentally handicapped, not "metal".

I like Disturbed.
I also like Opeth, Nevermore, Iron Maiden, Lost Horizon, Iced Earth, Living Colour, Sonny Rollins, Coldworker, Meshuggah, Porcupine Tree, Shadows Fall, Scar Symmetry, etc etc. I could go on and on. My point is though, what does it matter how people classify things? Someone declaring Britney Spears' new single as the most br00tal metal track to ever be recorded and the greatest defining moment in metal history isn't going to turn me away from metal or in anyway reduce my enjoyment of the music I like.

And what does it really matter if some poser gets off wearing a shirt from a band he's never listened to? He's the one missing out, by not getting into the music in the first place. And if someone else sees the shirt and thinks "shit, Slayer. I should check them out", then poser dude has actually done the band a favour.

There's another thing. Us metallers can make fun of our own music and still enjoy it. God forbid if you made fun of those "metalhead" kid's bands or a hip-hopper's groups.

come on, man. Metalheads can be just as precious about their music as any other music fans. Just check out any of the metal or guitar forums - filled with people getting into pissing matches because someone starts a "_____ [insert band name] sucks!" thread.

There's some good stuff in your post, Ben. But don't get so hung up on what others are doing. You're already onto some really good shit (especially compared to your peers), so enjoy it. And enjoy that feeling of knowing something that all those other sheep have missed.

[Ben...]

Definitely will do G.

Ozzfest bands. That's pretty good.

I do agree with the metal being about not conforming. It's kinda funny because the fad these days is to be "unconformist". Most of the people who buy into that don't realize the irony that by not conforming they are, in fact, conforming. And yes, metalheads do get mad when people make fun of their music too. Though I find that the people who get truly mad haven't realized that everything is opinion. The shirt thing is just a pet peeve of mine. It's kinda like false advertising. I always think "Oh, maybe they like the music I like" and then it turns out they were just wearing a shirt to be "cool".

[horns666]

Gary, Ben, Bibz, Metalchurch79..you fuckers saved me ALOT of typing!. I mean alot..you guys covered all the bases when it comes to the essense what metal is. Metal will always be because of guys like us. We are metalheads..we may "like" other forms of music but at the core..we are METALHEADS!

I want to scare away people that contaminate my metal..for they can suckle upon my dark marsupial. Fuck, that's the purpose of metal. Only Metalheads undestand metalheads..it's an elite brotherhood...period!

Endrik is my bro, and a talented, knowlegable muthafuggah..and he likes some metal. We have are own convictions on music that we may not share at times. He's a sharp guy when it comes to bands, titties, production and ect. But he doesn't share my conviction for metal. We do for funk/fusion bass playing tho. That's OK, when I wanted to show my father my demo..he heard 10 seconds of it and said and I quote "I don't wanna hear that shit, I'm not into that crap..you like that shit". I said dad "this is me..I wrote and played all of this stuff". He didn't care. Well I understood, but it did hurt my feelings. But my younger brother heard it and freaked. My bro said "dad, you should hear this, my friends love it." Finally he heard the mid tempo "scapegoat". He called me and said "Well, I really don't care for that music, but you sure can play and write as good as anyone in that style"..that's all I needed to hear.

He always came to see me play my vh tribute, so did tim owens. Playing all the hits..so he liked that. But that didn't fullfil me at all. I just felt like a human jukebox, playing someone else's crap...it's good crap, don't get me wrong. But it's not MY crap. But it paid VERY well!!!

To me a musician is someone who creates music from the heart and hope others will enjoy it. Not someone who learns their favorite songs from a fuggin' record. Muscians MAKE music..isn't that the idea..the purpose..the agenda?? It's cool to be able to nail a Nevermore, Van Halen, or even a song from The Brothers Johnson (I did that) or whatever..but at the end of the day all I did was copy a musician's work.

To me Kurt Colbain is more of a musician than someone covering a Racer X song who never wrote and original piece of music in their life...and I'm not a fan of his. But he did write genuine "catchy" songs. Eh...fugumms.

With that said..all men are not created equal..all muscians are not created equal..all bands are not created equal and none of that matters. Because the big wigs behind the scenes pay the media to dictate what is great and who's the best and they get a nice shiny award for a song they didn't even fuggin' write. Ozzy Osbourne don't even write his own shit anymore. He's a fuggin' burned out silly puppet.."the prince of sell outs" ..here's the lyrics Ozzy..here's the music Ozzy, here's the vocal line Ozzy..just sit here for 5 hours and see if you can sing these words on the teleprompter, and follow the bouncing fuggin' ball. Don't worry we have protools..and pitch correction. Ozzy's new album comes out and its a piece of shit. Remember Black Sabbath/Ozzy 1970-1984. The Ozzy we all worshipped and loved died after NMT..RIP. I saw Ozzfest several years ago and Sabbath sounded incredible..Ozzy did a good job, he's been singing those songs for four decades..he should stick to doing that, if he continues.

That's when Rob Halford re-united with Preist, and I had fuggin' goosebumps. I saw Preist with Ripper on the Demolition tour..what a difference. Rob Fuggin' Halford threw down a spankin'..ohhh, that sounded weird.

Yes, I am a metal elitist, but I love and except ALL genres of quality TRUE uncontaminated metal that has musical value, virtuocity, timeless songcraft, and most important , talent. True metal is timeless, but ALL trends have expiration dates. Band like Nevermore will sound just as fresh 10+ years from now..when bands like Bullet for my Valentine will be long forgotten. Because that shit is nothing more than the new "Nu" coke..nothing more than a new fuggin' Limp Bizkit.

The song remanans the same. I've been saying the same shit here for seven fuggin' years and it'll prolly be seven fuggin' more.

Hail Yesterday!!

Bill Z Bub

[metalchurch79]

Remember Black Sabbath/Ozzy 1970-1984. The Ozzy we all worshipped and loved died after NMT..RIP. I saw Ozzfest several years ago and Sabbath sounded incredible..Ozzy did a good job, he's been singing those songs for four decades..he should stick to doing that, if he continues.

That's when Rob Halford re-united with Preist, and I had fuggin' goosebumps. I saw Preist with Ripper on the Demolition tour..what a difference. Rob Fuggin' Halford threw down a spankin'..ohhh, that sounded weird.

Agreed and agreed.

Ozzy/Sabbath are and will always be my favs. I draw the line in 1988/ No Rest For The Wicked album though. NMT had some good songs, but as a whole...not all that good. The subsequent Ozzy albums have maybe 1 good songs off of each...

I saw the show with a reunited Sabbath, also with a reunited Priest, and Slayer. It was 2004 in Pittsburgh, PA...I saw 3 of my fav bands of all time in one day.
I never thought I'd ever admit that Halford gave me goosebumps, but he did..Priest did actually! Sabbath sounded so fuckin good, but Priest stole the show for sure! God damn, it was THE day of metal if there ever was one! Slayer, well they are Slayer, and they deliver no matter what the situation!
I also agree that if Ozzy continues, it should be with Sabbath, so he ends it like it all began. We've been waiting since 1997 for a new album, and all we've gotten were 2 teaser songs that weren't even that good.
And he should stop doing commercials! Like he really needs the money, right?

.....All fear the Sentinel....

[ozzuk1]

Most modelers i've seen and used have the modern amp mdoel beign a soldano or soemthing like that generally theres a sort of recto related name to the recto models line 6 have treadplate and diamond plate, boss have rectifier, and the vamps have rectified head and combo...

I think the vox stuff also has the modern stuff being soldano and other high gain non recto amps...

Ok im looking at a vox site picture and it appears the recto model is called numetal and theres uk modern and some other thing's that arent as clear...

Found a better picture here http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoas...vth/models.jpg

it appears that the soldano model is us highgain ...

But my main point was modern modelers settings are rearely if ever recto's.

And I personally have never heard a single numetal band have an even similar tone to any other metal band metallica had a numetalish tone on stanger but it was that mids at zero recto fizzy limp buiscuit korn etc fuzzy tone...

If you gave loomis or log a recto with numetal dialed sounds it'd be horrible it wouldnt work for most of the modern bands using that late 90's scooped tone, many of the brootz bands around now seem to like mids...

[beachjammer]

Well I've tried both ways with several different amps , pedals and modelers. I personally prefer amp distortion over pedal distortion but mayber have a tube screamer or something in the frontend to give it a little something extra. That just depends on the amp though. I like something in the front of a Marshall but not in a Mesa.

[Endrik]

I would rather things stayed this way than metal become mainstream.

well then a lot less people would know and be influenced by bands such as Iron Maiden if they wouldn't have had a huge mainstream success. If you don't want that other people would listen to your fav. bands then that's your problem. I don't have a problem listening to The Beatles just because they were the most popular band on the planet. I don't care about the other listeners, I only care about how the band sounds.

I also hate improper use of the term metal, especially when classifying bands.

I hate categories, so do most musicians, kinda sets the limits what you are suppose to do

Disturbed is NOT METAL; power chords and the ability to sound like a chimp make you look mentally handicapped, not "metal".

having actually listened to the albums by Disturbed I bet the guitar player can teach you a thing or two

This supposed image people attach to metal also makes me sick. I mean, yes there is an image, but when people go out of their way to change how they dress to fit in and look "metal", they aren't actually being metal at all. You have to be comfortable with how you dress. People should dress as themselves, not because that way is cool (I don't believe in cool by the way). For example; I know in the past Bill has brought up how to dress metal, to me that's more metal than how people dress nowadays. A pair of jeans (Levi's or something simple) and a dark coloured shirt is my definition, not all this crazy crap people wear nowadays. Mainstream "metal" seems to all be based on image now, and that is a major problem. To me, metal isn't about what others think, it's about what you think. It's about the music, the emotions set off by the music, thoughts that are provoked by it and how it affects you.

if metal to you is about music then why are you making a such a big issue about clothing and how other people look like?

There's another thing. Us metallers can make fun of our own music and still enjoy it. God forbid if you made fun of those "metalhead" kid's bands or a hip-hopper's groups. They'd start threatening you with beating you up even though both they and you'd know it's all a show on their part. especially the wanna-be gangster rappers. "You homie, I'm gonna bust a cap in you.". What? From your Supersoaker water pistol that you painted so it looks real?

gotta love stereotyping

Endrik has always been about selling the greatest number of albums & banging the greatest number of chicks. He and you have differing views about this topic.

My point is though, what does it matter how people classify things? Someone declaring Britney Spears' new single as the most br00tal metal track to ever be recorded and the greatest defining moment in metal history isn't going to turn me away from metal or in anyway reduce my enjoyment of the music I like.

And what does it really matter if some poser gets off wearing a shirt from a band he's never listened to? He's the one missing out, by not getting into the music in the first place. And if someone else sees the shirt and thinks "shit, Slayer. I should check them out", then poser dude has actually done the band a favour.


come on, man. Metalheads can be just as precious about their music as any other music fans. Just check out any of the metal or guitar forums - filled with people getting into pissing matches because someone starts a "_____ [insert band name] sucks!" thread.

+10000000 well said

Yes, I am a metal elitist,

yup and the first Bed Of Nails box-set will come with Sweet William's Chocolate Salty Balls... assorted hi grade desserts with sculls, flames and tits on them

[Partial @ Marshall]

What was this topic about again? Oh yeah tubes...I like tubes...tubes rule. And distortion...yeah distortion is good too.

[Endrik]

But my main point was modern modelers settings are rearely if ever recto's.

the total opposite what I've seen but that's not the point anyway... the name "modern hi gain tone" was first associated with rectifiers and nu metal bands were the ones who popularized that

And I personally have never heard a single numetal band have an even similar tone to any other metal band metallica had a numetalish tone on stanger but it was that mids at zero recto fizzy limp buiscuit korn etc fuzzy tone...

how many nu metal albums you have actually listened... 0? 0,3?
the sound varies from band to band... and with the mainstream/hi budget recordings there's no zero mids tones that I've heard... those albums were usually made by some of the greatest sound engineers and those guys just don't do that, you can't record an album like that... also the other misconception is that all those bands had gain on 10... which is far from truth... bands in the studio use very little gain.

If you gave loomis or log a recto with numetal dialed sounds it'd be horrible it wouldnt work for most of the modern bands using that late 90's scooped tone, many of the brootz bands around now seem to like mids...

this is another amusing thing... loomis has used recto on the recordings and with a tone that is similar to many nu bands....
just like Warren Demartini and Georg Lynch both used marshalls... there's a little bit different settings and both have it's own definiton but you can tell it's a marshall and both can work with each other's set-up
you are just blinded by labels (music styles) and don't see what's really happening... nu metal, true metal, King's X Dogman, White Zombies Astro Creep 2000 etc. doesn't matter what style of music it is... there's so many made with rectifiers and the same type of tone.
if you'd really have listened some albums then you'd speak something different... some of the more skillful nu bands have had some fast Pantera-ish riffing played with their usual sound and it works very well.

[VitaminG]

yup and the first Bed Of Nails box-set will come with Sweet William's Chocolate Salty Balls... assorted hi grade desserts with sculls, flames and tits on them

marketing genius!

[horns666]

well then a lot less people would know and be influenced by bands such as Iron Maiden if they wouldn't have had a huge mainstream success. If you don't want that other people would listen to your fav. bands then that's your problem. I don't have a problem listening to The Beatles just because they were the most popular band on the planet. I don't care about the other listeners, I only care about how the band sounds.


I hate categories, so do most musicians, kinda sets the limits what you are suppose to do


having actually listened to the albums by Disturbed I bet the guitar player can teach you a thing or two



if metal to you is about music then why are you making a such a big issue about clothing and how other people look like?



gotta love stereotyping






+10000000 well said



yup and the first Bed Of Nails box-set will come with Sweet William's Chocolate Salty Balls... assorted hi grade desserts with sculls, flames and tits on them

..I like it..No I love it!!

[Schneeky]

Especially you Robert Burns. I know I owe you a PM..but after seeing your tighty whities..kiss my ass!!! What the fuck is wrong with you? You're on youtube..the whole world saw your fat ass?? why??. To hell with questions about tone..first ask yourself..does tone really matter while prancing around like Homer fuggin' Simpson.

.. While this is all very interesting, I must be the odd one out that missed this video somehow.. Sounds most entertaining ..
After "Pink Flamingos" I think I can handle about anything.. Anybody got a link.? d:^) Schneeky..
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