I've decided to build a rack ...But I need some help

[Jayster]

I've decided to build a rack , but I don't really know that much about many of the components available.You guys with lots of experience , please save me from some head aches - what would you include and why , also name brands vs performance and price !!

What I'm wanting to do is build a rack for possibly my #1 rig (currently using red voodoo 120hd , and a couple of pedals).I'm looking at putting in an ada mp1(don't have yet ,but I'm actively searching) I love the sounds of these.I'll want a power amp ,some form of preamp , compressor ,limiter ,noise gate or hush ,delay ,reverb ,flange etc. .I've heard that many units are better dedicated to just 1 effect ?I want to have a versatile rack for playing many styles ,however it will predominatly be hard rock\heavy metal (with some clean tones ) !

Also anyone have experience with bbe sonic maximizers - are these any good ?

Any suggestions will be read and taken into acount.Pics are always encouraged.

is there a piece of gear you love\hate ? howcome ?I've tried doing a few searches and didn't really find what I was looking for .So thanks in advance for taking the time to help me out !!!

Cheers
Jay

[AK47]

One thing I will start with the basics so you do not need to make the same mistakes I did.

First thing get a rack case that is shock mount and has plenty of room. Do I need to mention the amount of money I spent buying bigger and bigger cases everytime I upgraded, or replacing cheap budget cases that broke. If I just went and got the 20 space shockmount I would have saved a ton of money in the long run. This one comes with locking casters as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/OSP-DELUXE-ATA-20-SPACE-SHOCK-MOUNT-AMP-RACK-CASE_W0QQitemZ200268923721QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200268923721&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1317%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Next thing is get a 20 amp conditioner like a furman or juice goose. Makes life alot easier.

Then a few other things I would recommend.

TC electronics G force pretty much standard equipment in all current touring bands racks.

A good EQ I use a ADA MQ1 but those are very hard to find.

Triaxis is a good preamp or the ADA MP1

For power go with a VHT2150 or Mesa Strategy400. Bullet proof and can power four 4x12 cabs. Can be found real cheap as well.

[Cleveland Metal]

Every one of these things could get a page of input... Simply....

Power "conditioners" are pretty good things to spend good money on especially if you play clubs that have crappy electrical systems... Some are just distribution, True conditioners, will control voltage to some extent and protect from brownouts that are extremely hard on electronics. Some shit blows up good at 80 volts or so.... Furman makes some awesome ones that are in the 400 dollar range that are extremely protective... Cheap ones do the surges, it takes a more expensive unit to do brownouts. Less need for awesome ones if you just play at home... Clubs... High dollar ones are worth every cent...

BBE's... Some preamp/amp combinations love em, some just hate em... Ya just have to see. I try to stay away from them, and have a few sitting on a shelf here and ebayed the rest. As been said a million times, the 422 tends to be more pleasing to the ears w/guitar than newer more advanced models. Newer ones lean towards more sizzly sounding to my ears.

EQ's... Sometimes needed, sometimes not. High end is the way to go. TC, Rane etc... More transparent and less noise than say Alesis etc... I have settled on a TC Electronic 1140 Parametric. Parametrics are more tone shaping and the Graphics have their uses as well.

Poweramps... Look to MESA or VHT and a few others for quality units. The newer VT KT88 amps are excellent for their size. I run a VHT 2150 and it's godlike... But, dayummm... it's heavy as hell... If you're playing at home... maybe even a MESA 20/20... Lots to ponder... Weight, cost, power needs, tone, quality needs... Lotsa variables... Depends on what you want, we could sero in better... Again, bang for buck and size/weight, VHT 2-90-2 is pretty much bad ass... 2150 = king of the hill... KT88 units my weapon of choice.

I've been through a hundred preamps... Just depends what yas want tonally, and money wise... Could recommend a lot.

ADA stuff doesnt do much for me, just not my tone area. And if they pop, they're pretty much over it seems. I have a CAE3+se.. and that's pricey but drips with decent tone, not particularly heavy/brutal out of the box, but can be made to cooperate. Lotsa cheaper alternatives. Was happy with Rocktron Voodu Valve (dead sounding but quite brutal), Sansamp PSA-1 (quite interesting), ENGL's (nice stuff), etc etc... You may enjoy the MESA Triaxis or studio preamp (I did not, but many do).

I can go on and on... Ask questions I guess...

A lot depends on your usage... home or clubs... Type of music (preamps particularly) etc etc...

[hippietim]

Whatever you do, think about lifting the thing. A 20-space shock rack is fun until you have to do a flight of steep, narrow, rickety stairs. Fuck that - I'm never doing that again. Now I separate my stuff into two racks that I can carry by myself.

As John said, invest in a good power conditioner up front. In all likelihood you will change preamps, power amps, effects units, switchers, etc. many times but you can nail the power up front which will not only protect your gear but it will absolutely sound better when you are playing places with poor electrical service. I use the Furman Power Factor Pro R.

There aren't many good choices for power amps. The newer Marshalls are notorious for reliability problems. The older Mono-Block Marshall with 5881's sounds pretty good though. I'd stick with either a Boogie 2:90 or 2:100 or a VHT 2502, 2902, 2150. I'm not a fan of EL84 powered stuff so I've steered clear of the 20/20 stuff (although the size and weight it appealing). A Mosvalve 962 is a surprisingly good sounding non-tube power amp and you can get those for under $200.

I suggest you visit http://hugeracksinc.com and just do some reading - there is a LOT of info their on all manner of preamps, poweramps, effects, pedalboards, etc.

[AK47]

Whatever you do, think about lifting the thing. A 20-space shock rack is fun until you have to do a flight of steep, narrow, rickety stairs. Fuck that - I'm never doing that again. Now I separate my stuff into two racks that I can carry by myself.

As John said, invest in a good power conditioner up front. In all likelihood you will change preamps, power amps, effects units, switchers, etc. many times but you can nail the power up front which will not only protect your gear but it will absolutely sound better when you are playing places with poor electrical service. I use the Furman Power Factor Pro R.

There aren't many good choices for power amps. The newer Marshalls are notorious for reliability problems. The older Mono-Block Marshall with 5881's sounds pretty good though. I'd stick with either a Boogie 2:90 or 2:100 or a VHT 2502, 2902, 2150. I'm not a fan of EL84 powered stuff so I've steered clear of the 20/20 stuff (although the size and weight it appealing). A Mosvalve 962 is a surprisingly good sounding non-tube power amp and you can get those for under $200.

I suggest you visit http://hugeracksinc.com and just do some reading - there is a LOT of info their on all manner of preamps, poweramps, effects, pedalboards, etc.

I never had a situation that I had to take a 20 space rack up a full flight of stairs. If that is going to be a common occurence than I agree with Tim. Otherwise buy 2 2x12 cabs instead of a 4x12 as well if you have to always go up stairs. LOL

I have had situations were I had to go up or down a step or two and had a cheap caster break off of a cheap rack case.

I see so many people with nice rack setups but it just looks weird when you have a 5 space rack case stacked on top of a 8 space rack case and anothe 3 space rack case on top of that. Its just drives me crazy because for the same price of all those cases you can get a 20 space rack and set it up with nice fans and ventilation to keep your rig cool. Plus it looks so much nicer.

[FlyingSkull]

Thanks for the info, really helpful.

I have a related question. I find that running a preamp through the effects loop of a tube combo amp sounds quite a bit better than running it out front. With a rack power amp, is the pre amp running in front so to speak or does the power amp inputs function more like an effect loop? Sorry for the newb question.

[JacksonVHT]

The best thing about a rack unit is that you can have whatever you want and whatever you need.

Your basics should be a rack case, poweramp and preamp.

All of that depends on what kind of sound you want.

ADA MP1 is a great preamp with a lot of nut busting 80s tones. It can be had for a very small price.

Now depending on if you like a lot of clarity in your tone or saturation is where you'd choose a power amp.

You can get a used VHT 2/50/2 for 900$ if you want top notch clarity. A Marshall power amp for even less, or a Mesa 2:90 for pretty cheap as well, if you like a little bit of saturation and power amp distortion.

After wards, it's all up to you.

If you want multi-fx, pedals, midi controls, switcher, rack tuner, etc..

For power go with a VHT2150 or Mesa Strategy400. Bullet proof and can power four 4x12 cabs. Can be found real cheap as well.

I highly advise against buying out of production, expensive (2150 at least) and rare amps especially for a preamp like an MP1. Completely pointless in my opinion.

[JacksonVHT]

Thanks for the info, really helpful.

I have a related question. I find that running a preamp through the effects loop of a tube combo amp sounds quite a bit better than running it out front. With a rack power amp, is the pre amp running in front so to speak or does the power amp inputs function more like an effect loop? Sorry for the newb question.

Power amps don't have inputs like combos do.

They specifically have 1 or 2 inputs for a preamp to feed into, and outputs for the speaker.

The area between the preamp and power amp connection is the fx loop on a combo amp.

[FlyingSkull]

Power amps don't have inputs like combos do.

They specifically have 1 or 2 inputs for a preamp to feed into, and outputs for the speaker.

The area between the preamp and power amp connection is the fx loop on a combo amp.

Thanks for that, that makes it clear.

[AK47]

I highly advise against buying out of production, expensive (2150 at least) and rare amps especially for a preamp like an MP1. Completely pointless in my opinion.

Why?

You can easily get tubes for either. The Mesa you can get serviced no problem at the facory even and the VHT2150 is practically bullet proof.

I think a 2150 just sold on Ebay for under 800 bucks.

There is a Strategy 400 on Ebay right now for a great price. I am glad I got rid of my more common Mesa 2:90 and got a 400 power amp. Have not looked back since. Metallica still to this day will use the Strategy 400 and has a ADA MP1 in the rack. Remember the black album tour that is all they used live.

[Cleveland Metal]

I highly advise against buying out of production, expensive (2150 at least) and rare amps especially for a preamp like an MP1. Completely pointless in my opinion.

Dunno about that, not that I'm saying he should get a a 2150 (although it's certainly an idea I wouldn't rebuke), but they aren't that expensive, generally as cheap as a 2-90-2 or 2-50-2, and more reliable. Even VHT has not been immune to the need to cheapen stuff up in recent years, and the 2150 are seriously overbuilt and rarely fail. And, they really aren't all that rare. Lotsa people end up selling them as they are heavy and the rack thing isn't all that popular.

The way the industry is moving, EVERYTHING around will be out of production at some point and (unlike MANY other things) the 2150 will be serviceable for a LONG time. Not much in there that you can't deal with.

Something like a VHT 2150 or 2-90-2 or MESA Strategy series would be something you'd ikely keep as long as you were racking it and is the main building block of a rack.


And as for the 20 stair comment... AGREED. I'd like a 16 space shock rack. But, we pactice in a basement. And alone, I'd be hard pressed to carry it up every show... Needless to say, I've drug stuff all over hell and back and have seen multi-story walkups. I currently use two cases so I can carry it alone if need be. Contemplating 4 MESA 2x12 instead of two 412s even

[FlyingSkull]

Sorry to jack the original poster thread but do any of you have comments on the Carvin TS100? I've always liked Carvin stuff, but heard there are some problems with the newer models? Any info would be great, Thanks.

[AK47]

Sorry to jack the original poster thread but do any of you have comments on the Carvin TS100? I've always liked Carvin stuff, but heard there are some problems with the newer models? Any info would be great, Thanks.

All the Carvin stuff like the TS100 I have come across was garbage IMO. My friend had one that was alright but there is better stuff out there for a similar price on the used market. Just an opinion.

[FlyingSkull]

All the Carvin stuff like the TS100 I have come across was garbage IMO. My friend had one that was alright but there is better stuff out there for a similar price on the used market. Just an opinion.

Thanks, that is something to consider.

[metalchurch79]

Both my Engl preamp (1985) and my Marshall poweramp (1996) have been outta production for a long long time and they are still going strong for the most part.
They havent been serviced during their whole life until this June, I had my Marshall poweramp serviced. It need some resistors and capasitors and my tech was able to order them with no problem.
Generally preamps and poweramps are simple in design and there are some parts that retrofit....side from a rare power transformer that is...
As pointed out, tubes can always be bought.

I prefer to buy used rack stuff because there's alot of great deals to be had.