gear; soon to buy

[rickydekker]

Me too. I want to know the details of what this guy has and how much money he has to spend. He is asking us to give advice on building a totaly pro high end gigging/touring rig. I don't mind helping with advice at all providing this isn't a fantasy rig.

So... Rickkydekker..... give us all the low down and we can start talking turkey.

(its not a fantasy, my band isnt exactly metallica, but we can afford this tuff, not all at once, but in due time.)

[jgcable]

(its not a fantasy, my band isnt exactly metallica, but we can afford this tuff, not all at once, but in due time.)

Good. Now that we have that squared away lets do this.

I would suggest going with a traditional amp head and cabinets. For the type of music you play I would suggest a Mesa Dual or Triple Rectifier. You then need to get a small rack and put a Furman conditioner, a TCI G-Major and a Rane Parametric EQ in it.
On the floor you need to get a midi controller to control the G-Major (which will also control your Rectifier)
I would suggest a Ground Control. They are pretty much bullet proof.
Out in front of the amp you can have your Digitech whammy pedal.
Regarding cabinets.... I would suggest stock Mesa 4 x 12 cabs loaded with Mesa stock speakers.
This rig will give you all the gain, power and versatility you will need for the type of music you play and it won't kill your wallet.
Its almost an industry standard rig. Rectifiers react very well to serious drop tuning. Thats why many death metal bands use them.
Stay away from Marshall based amps for the serious drop tuning stuff. They get a little loose.
Other amp heads to look at are the Carvin V3 and the Engl Savage (if you could find one)
The Mesa Stiletto Deuce and Trident are other amps to look at. Killswitch Engage uses them. They have great guitar sound.
The nice thing about the G-Major is that it will handle most of your effects, your tuner, your solo boost, your noise gate and it will channel switch your amp. The Rane Parametric will help you dial in the exact frequencies your ears want to hear. They are the inbetween ones that you can't get with the EQ on the amp. The Furman will give you the protection and the outlets.
Hows that...

[rickydekker]

i dont like rectifier sounds... i never really have. LOG uses MAKR IV'S, JP uses them, metallica uses MARKS, but uses the IIC+'S [which i also like somewhat]

i like the way mark IV'S sound, they get that "growling midrange" and "tight percussive" sound im looking for. i already know that a mark IV will be a amazing amp for me. and i want a rackmounted one... more convenient

cabinets- i HEAR the old mesa half back cabs are good, but if i can get ahold of one i will get the smallest mesa 4x12 cab i can get, i think stilletio's are the ones im talking about. smaller cab=tighter midrange from what i understand, and my jackson cab is very small and i love the sound. i also like the sound and response of celestion speakers.

if i get the mark IV i wont need a rack EQ. it has a 5 band eq on it, and i dont really need an EQ with an amp that good.

as for effects... i really am not a fan of digital, everyhting is always digital VS analog or SS vs tube with me. i like analog gear, it sounds warm and sweet. digital gear has more options, but i dont need alot of options. playing is playing, not showing off your FX...?

so for effects id want to have a ibanez ue 405, whammy, bb preamp, carbon copy delay, TC elecronic nova reverb, mxr evh phaser [already own]... mxr stereo chorus, and thats about all id need. i COULD get a switcher and ground control, be=ut why nee it? stomping on pedals could work just fine.? and id get a furman conditioner to protect it all

i dont want an "industry standard" rig? i want a high gain, ut at the same time, old school rig. kind of? what do you think?

[rickydekker]

also, i dont tune down that much, C# and down a whole step isnt really that far down... jfac and whitechapel are in drop A#

[jgcable]

also, i dont tune down that much, C# and down a whole step isnt really that far down... jfac and whitechapel are in drop A#

The Mark IV or the Mark IIc+ will not give you that death metal sound you are looking for. I have owned both amps. They will give you an organic tight lead tone.
You see, thats the problem most guitarists have that play the style of music you play. They look for a unique sound when in fact.. they are actually looking for an industry standard tone.

If you don't like the sound of a rectifier and you play death metal you need to rethink your genre of music. A Mark IV will get you Dream Theatre John Petrucci tone.. not death metal.
A Mark IIc+ isn't even close. It will give you a Metallica tone if you record one in the studio and you use 24 tracks to layer the guitar.
The Bogner Ubershall will give you the tone you are looking for for $4K.
The Peavey 5150 slammed with a BBE will give you that tone too. It will also give you a ton of hiss at those high gain settings.
I have been playing metal since the mid 70's. I kind of know what I am talking about. Ask some people on the JCF.

[markD]

dude, john's right. i dumped my MKIV because ALL it really seemed to give me was a killer lead tone. i didn't want to add a whole bunch of shit to an expensive amp to get to sound good all the way around. i found the MKIV very hard to dial in, and unless i scooped the shit out of it, the sound was crummy. scooped is NOT for me.

it has been done, LOG, for example - lucky them. listen to john. the MKIV is still rather expensive to try out, especially since they have been discontinued.

[rickydekker]

ive played MK IV's

it IS the tone im looking for

im not looking for that generic "job for a cowboy" tone... im looking for that thrashy in your face melting midrange high gain tone. i dont play super low end stuff... its almost hard to decribe it, but we play sort of thrash metal also. NOT the low end rectifier sounding stuff. and im the lead player, so i NEED that lead tone the mark IV produces.

we kind of sound like a cross beetween DEATH, cinis cineris, all that remains, and abigail williams. death metal/progressive/thrash

i know what kind of tone the mark IV can produce, and i LASO know exactly what tone im looking for

[rickydekker]

LOG is a great example... MK IV's dont get the credit they should, i think anyways

[jgcable]

ive played MK IV's

it IS the tone im looking for

im not looking for that generic "job for a cowboy" tone... im looking for that thrashy in your face melting midrange high gain tone. i dont play super low end stuff... its almost hard to decribe it, but we play sort of thrash metal also. NOT the low end rectifier sounding stuff. and im the lead player, so i NEED that lead tone the mark IV produces.

we kind of sound like a cross beetween DEATH, cinis cineris, all that remains, and abigail williams. death metal/progressive/thrash

i know what kind of tone the mark IV can produce, and i LASO know exactly what tone im looking for

Now you are contradicting yourself. You mentioned drop C tuning. Now you are saying you don't play super low end stuff. WTF... .. but anyway... if you want a face melting midrange high gain tone there is probably only one amp that can do it..... The Soldano SLO100
Also.. since you have suddenly become a high gain midrange face melting thrash metal player I will now suggest Marshall amps. Look at Splawn modded amps, the Pitbull and the rack mounted JMP1.
Finally...
If you think that a Dual or Triple Rectifier has a "generic job for a cowboy tone" you have a fair amount to learn. Enjoy the ride bro.

[Joelski]

Epic.


Needs more KERRANG!!

[rickydekker]

drop C tuning and C# is completly different.

drop c is drop d down one whole step.

c# is standard tuning down a step and a half. ATR uses it alot

...it';s hard to descirbe a tone, and hard to decribe how something sounds. the tone im looking for is in a MK IV.

wouldnt it annoy you guys if someone was telling YOU that YOUR WRONG when you already know pernonally that the people who are telling you your wrong ARE THE ONES THAT ARE WRONG, IN THIS CASE?
it annoys me. ive studied the MK IV amp, heard it, and i know when i can, im gonna buy it.

[quiksilver]

WTF?

If you already know all the answers, why are you asking for others' opinions and advice?

[jgcable]

WTF?

If you already know all the answers, why are you asking for others' opinions and advice?

Exactly. Rickydekker, you have studied the MKIV. I owned it. There is a difference. With that said.. I think the MK IV is a fine amp. Its one of my all time favorites. Its one of the best amps ever made. Its a legend and a classic and most of the pro's have one somewhere in their studio.
If you want a MKIV by all means go get one. They are great.
Just don't expect Metallica tone out of one. If you want Metallica tone with no fuss and no tweaking.. get a Rectifier. I was in a band back in the mid 80's and we played many songs off of Master of Puppets. It was within 6 months after the album first came out. I played a Randall RG100ES at the time and the other guitar player played a 1st year Dual Rectifier with 2 oversized Mesa cabs. The combination of those 2 amps nailed the MOP tone. My bandmate at the time with the Rectifier had the more dominant guitar tone because I was also the lead singer so my tone was more to fill up the gaps.
After reading all your responses I don't know why you are asking for advice either. Just go get all the gear you mentioned. Its all great stuff. The only downside is the amount of tweaking you will have to do. The MKIV along with a G-Force and all the other gear you are going to buy is going to be VERY challenging to set up a consistant tone with.
Its also going to be pricey. What you are going to end up with is a tone that you could get with the correct stock amp.
If you want to counterpoint I am ready. I am REALLY good at this stuff.
You are talking to a major league amp whore.

[jgcable]

Also... I think discussions like this really benefit the forum so thanks for starting thread. This is the kind of thread that actually is helpful to the players out there searching for a specific tone.

[VitaminG]

I know I've learned a valuable lesson here. This type of thread isn't about getting opinions or advice from more experienced players - it's about impressing the less experienced players with all the AWESOME gear he's going to buy (pending the sale of some expensive bass bought for a friend by the record company which the friend is now gifting him). You guys have ruined the show by providing real world experience of the gear he has been "studying". You should have been swinging from his nuts instead.

ah, some people's kids. They should leave home while they still know everything.