Rhoads' Marshall - I gotta know

[jgcable]

The Rhoads amp was discussed twice in the August 2008 Guitar World issue, in the Randy article with photos of the original head and Randy's pedal board and then the actual gear review of the new amp.

Aside from the mods mentioned above, Randy's cabs also had 100W Altec Lansing 417-8H speakers (apparently no longer made/hard to find)

I have 2 of the 300w versions. They are basically the same speaker. They are incredible.

[markD]

Was the JMP series a fixture of anyone else's backline at the time? Blackmore? Schenker? Montrose? Uli Roth? Gary Ritchrath? Surely it had to be associated with other players besides Rhoads? If it's been a sought-after model series for years based on its own merits, why not simply reissue the line with whatever fixes plagued it at the time of it's demise, if any, without a particular "name" attached to it?

i know it was a part of iron maiden's backline up through "piece of mind". dave and adrian used 50 watt JMP MKII heads.

i *think* it was a part of the scorpions' backline - at least schenker and jabs.

not sure about uli roth - it's possible, but he was such a hendrix freak he was probably still using a plexi (or even a jtm45).

i am prety sure michael schenker was using them in the early 80's.

the JMP was the new marshall that was able to get "higher" gain than the plexi's. once the JCM800 came out, the JMP was kinda put to the side, because the JCM800 got even MORE gain than the JMP.

as far as WHY they have a rhoad's amp...why really cares? they just do.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

it has a standard or "stock" mod that was commonnly done on that head at the time. Rhoads had that mod done for him at the factory. so i would consider it fairly lagitament as a signature head. the cabs however are just stock cabs with white tolex.


...yes, i am Mr. State the Obvious.

[Newc]

it has a standard or "stock" mod that was commonnly done on that head at the time. Rhoads had that mod done for him at the factory. so i would consider it fairly lagitament as a signature head. the cabs however are just stock cabs with white tolex.


...yes, i am Mr. State the Obvious.

But then, if it was a standard or popular mod regardless of Rhoads' influence on the popularity of the mod, then it can't really be a specific artist's sig model. There's no legitimate reason then. If he had "signature" mod done to it that only he had, or that wasn't as common (EVH's variac thing) then maybe I could see it, but if it was a "generic" mod, comparable to something like "most people who buy a Les Paul replace the pots with 1Meg volumes", then no, I don't see it as anything but a money grab on Marshall's part.

[Larz]

It could be seen as a money grab, but it is dedicated to the memory of Randy, as written on the back of the amp. I don't think any Dime or SRV, etc. products do that.

With Marshall, are they really hurting for cash anyway?

Plus it is extremely limited edition.

I don't know the whole background but maybe it was a case of giving the fans what they want, a connection with Randy. And it was certainly blessed by the Rhoads family as they pulled his original head out of storage for Marshall to look over.

[Bryan]

I agree.

Plus at about $2400 (I think) it's not that much more than a regular head and doesn't seem like much of a "money grab" to me.

[hippietim]

I gotta be honest, Randy had the tone of the ass. It is not something I would ever attempt to achieve.

Having said that, this amp is probably great since without some poorly adjusted MXR pedals in the way this amp probably sounds glorious.

[Cleveland Metal]

Tim absolutely took the words out of my mouth.

That guitar tone wasn't even good when it came out. I always felt like "this guy will kill when he gets his sound down"

AC/DC, Back in Black (Defining Marshall tone) was just out. Scorpions "Black Out" out shortly after Randy in 82, was great Marshall tone. Rhoads, not so much....

If they made a Back in Black amp, now that would be tasty...

[Newc]

It could be seen as a money grab, but it is dedicated to the memory of Randy, as written on the back of the amp. I don't think any Dime or SRV, etc. products do that.

With Marshall, are they really hurting for cash anyway?

Plus it is extremely limited edition.

I don't know the whole background but maybe it was a case of giving the fans what they want, a connection with Randy. And it was certainly blessed by the Rhoads family as they pulled his original head out of storage for Marshall to look over.

Maybe, but just how sincere is the "dedication"? I mean, I'm not as enamored with RR as most folks here, so maybe I'm not so close that I'm blinded by his light. Then again, I never did idolize anyone so much that I wanted "their" gear like that. I wanted a Les Paul because of Jimmy Page, but didn't hold out for a Cherryburst from the same year, a Dumble, or the same-year Telecaster. While the LP serves as a "connection" for me to some extent, going further with it seems kinda creepy in a Mark Chapman/John Lennon sorta way.

I gotta be honest, Randy had the tone of the ass. It is not something I would ever attempt to achieve.

Having said that, this amp is probably great since without some poorly adjusted MXR pedals in the way this amp probably sounds glorious.

Agreed. Rhoads had a great solo tone for technical playing, but I thought his rhythm tone lacked balls. Then again, I was a Sabbath fan first, and when I first heard Blizzard Of Oz, I thought "he sounds nothing like Iommi"

I never saw Rhoads live, so I can't tell if his true tone was ever captured on tape or if it was the producer's ideal that made it to the final mix.


We've all heard that Randy's mom is highly protective of his name/image/legacy and didn't want to whore it out. Times change, people change, and after years of pestering by God-knows-who-all, maybe she took the money? Like you said "does Marshall really need the money?" - maybe they dug deep enough to change her mind?


I'm not trying to taint anyone's image of Rhoads, by any stretch, and I don't think Rhoads' name should be the exclusive property of Jackson. I just don't see a logical reason for this amp model given that
:
1. His direct influence didn't put Marshall on the map like with Jackson
2. it's only a portion of his tone
3. there's no matching pedal set, and
4. there's no matching signature guitar with matching pickups available.

The LTDs are available only on the Collector market, so they're classified as "not available". The RR1T is, as I understand it, different enough from his second one (the black one) - most notably in the bridge pickup (JB vs Distortion), and IIRC there's a distinct difference between the neck profile of the PCS and RR1. However, isn't the PCS different from his black one in some way?

The current-model MXR pedals are, also as I understand it, quite different in architecture from the ones he used, so again you have to go the high-price Collector/Vintage route to get those.

With the amp being a "limited edition" to match the guitars and vintage pedals, it seems more like catering to the Collectors than the Fans, thus it reeks of being a "money grab".


Didn't Randy have a Fender Champ that, as his own mother professed, he loved? Should Fender cash in on that with a limited edition sig model?

[Carbuff]

I gotta be honest, Randy had the tone of the ass. It is not something I would ever attempt to achieve.

Yes! I mentioned this in the original thread when someone on this board got their hands on one of the first ones. The silence was deafening. I guess it might have been looked at as pissing on someones parade or something. Im sure its a fine amp capable of some great tones but I couldnt see the point of such an expensive amp produced to reproduce a tone that wasnt all that great to begin with. Looks cool though.

[Cleveland Metal]

I wanted to say it, but didn't wanna seem like a dick, haha...

Like any 800-ish Marshall, I'm sure it's kinda cool and can be massaged to sound pretty cool with the right outboard stuff.

[roodyrocker]

I think Randy's tone was good, not sure why some of you guys didn't like it but oh well, can't argue someone else's tastes. What I can argue however is the misconceptions that this amp instantly gives you Randy's tone whether with or without MXR pedals. The JMP was a pretty popular Marshall amp, the stuff of legend There were many others using JMP's but only one person was instantly recognizable for his white JMP with large Marshall logo and that was Rhoads. If you don't want to buy the Rhoads head but still a white JMP, just buy a used late 70's one if you find one and then have someone mod the inputs for you for that cascading gain mod. My guess is by the time you buy a white origianal JMP in nice shape and have it modded you'll likely be wishing you just bought a new Rhoads head.
As for the cascading gain mod itself, keep in mind that even with the mod the amp doesn't have the type of gain we now routinely expect from modern amps. So throwing some type of boost or gain pedal in front of it is not unreasonable at all. I happen to have an original MXR script logo Distrotion+ however not the 10 band eq. And honestly, its difficult for me to use the MXR with it because if I turn the knobs to where I get significant changes in gain, I get unwanted noise. If I turn down the MXR it gets closer to the amps sound. In other words its a fine line and usually a sublte difference. Maybe using the 10 band eq would allow me to turn down some of the offending frequencies, I don't know. What I do know is that this amp is the best sounding Marshall I've heard come out in over 20 years. I used to have a mid 70's non-master volume Super Lead 100 and this has tone reminiscent of that amp except a bit more gain. The amp also cleans up very nicely with the volume knob on the guitar turned down and even though it has no footswitching or other channels, it can be played almost like a 2 channel amp. Feedback is very easy to achieve on this amp too.
By the way, if you don't care whether its white or not, and you still want a Marshall JMP, I saw small logo JMP re-issues at NAMM this year along with JTM's. So there is another option for you. If you haven't played one or at least heard it in person, it IS a killer sounding Marshall and don't make the mistake of thinking it only sounds like Rhoads!
And finally, Randy's mom is well into her 80's and isn't doing this to make money off his name. I can't even believe this point was brought up on a board whose guitars owe everything to Rhoads. I've never met Mrs. Delores Rhoads but have never ever heard a bad thing about her.

[Rupe]

First off, tone is subjective to a large degree...I think there are certain elements that make a tone "bad" that are beyond subjective, but I don't believe Randy's tone exhibited any of these.

I for one think that there were many better tones happening during that period...VH, Scorps, Priest, and Triumph immediately come to mind. That said, I have a hard time imagining signature tunes like Crazy Train (especially the intro) or Flying High Again sounding any cooler with a different tone. It worked for the songs for the most part.

As for the cash grab, no f'ing way. A limited run of 300 heads world wide (150 to the US) is in no way a cash grab. I am fairly confident that this amp was all about giving some of Randy's fans a chance to own essentially what he played through both electronically and esthetically (with the exception of the out-of-production speakers...which they AB'd with numerous models before arriving at the conclusion that 75 watt Celestions exhibited similar dynamics and response). Way more "tribute" than anything being released under the "Dime" moniker (much of which he never even used).

Regarding performance, I own the full stack. It sounds very much like a great JMP (of which I've had many) from the era. The cascaded gain mod ups the aggression a bit, but it certainly doesn't offer up a high gain lead tone...pedals are still required for that. I actually slightly prefer the unmodded sound of channel one...classic Marshall grind all day long.

[Newc]

On the subjective subject of Rhoads' tone, no I can't imagine those riffs with any other tone would make them sound the same. However, since we've never heard Rhoads play those riffs with any other tone before the recordings were made, we'll never know.

It's like the "Turn The Page" argument: most people who have heard the Bob Seger version first don't like Metallica's version. I, on the other hand, had never heard the song until Metallica did it. I perfer Metallica's version because it has more dynamics. Others see it as butchery/blasphemy.


Absolutely no one is beyond reproach/suspicion. I'm sure Delores is a sweet lady who loved Randy llike a mother should love her son. I'm also sure the residuals from the Sharon Osbourne Holding Company aren't what they used to be, so if she takes a bag o money from Marshall for the amp, that's her prerogative.

However, none of that gets to the heart of the matter: why does this amp exist?


As for giving a handful of fans the chance to play through the same amp Randy used, I don't buy it simply because of the differences, most notably the speakers. Yes, Altec-Lansing stopped making those models. Marshall also stopped making the JMP this one's based on, didn't they?

Aren't there other components that are no longer available? Certain types of caps and transistors? Anyone compare the guts of the new head to the guts of an original?

[Cygnus X1]

That certain thin, high, midrangy, buzzy tone was just what it took to make the sound.

My opinion.
Great tone?
NO.
Does it fit in the mix?
Of course.