Wah Questions

[AlexL]

I have a Budda Wah on loan from a local music store, and had a few questions for the experts here.

First off, my amp is always run clean; consider it like a Fender twin reverb. It has no effects loop, so all effects are on the front end.

I have always heard that a wah should be the first effect in the chain. In that configuration, I go guitar -> wah -> distortion pedal -> amp input.

When run like that, the wah effect is minimal, and operates over a very narrow range.

When I change the configuration to guitar -> distortion pedal -> wah -> amp input, it makes a world of difference. The effect is more pronounced, like I expect, and the range of operation is much more linear. So this feels like the better setup.

My questions are this:

1) When in the "heel down" position, it sounds quite muddy. Is this normal?
2) When in the "toe down" position, and I push harder to click the switch to disable the effect, there is quite a difference in the tone between "max toe down" and "off". Is this normal?
3) Should there be any position of the wah that is the same as the wah being disabled?


Thanks,

- E.

[Grandturk]

1) When in the "heel down" position, it sounds quite muddy. Is this normal?
2) When in the "toe down" position, and I push harder to click the switch to disable the effect, there is quite a difference in the tone between "max toe down" and "off". Is this normal?
3) Should there be any position of the wah that is the same as the wah being disabled?

This is all from my experience, others may vary, of course:

Overall, the wah should be first in the chain - you want to boost (or effect) the clean signal from the guitar. Running it after another boost will result in effecting the already boosted signal. It absolutely will sound different depending on the location in the chain. Play with it in different places - put it where it sounds best to you. For me, it's first.

1. Yes to varying degrees based on the pedal itself. A wah is a frequency booster, and the heel position is usually the "low" end, farty, throaty, whatever.

2. Off is bypassed - no effect in the signal. Toe down should be considered the highest frequency range boost - remember, the rocker pedal is not a level control, its a frequency sweep.

3. No - only "off" should be bypassed. The pedal sweeps the frequency, not the level.

Now, you may notice additional frequency range to be available as you are pressing the bypass switch - this is a little lost range that you'll never be able to get under practical application as you are engaging the switch as you press down that far.

Some wahs are switchless, others have the switch seperate from the pedal. In your case, I think the Budda is pretty tradition crybaby set up, so the physical switch is under the toe.

You can leave the wah in a "cocked" position - then its just set to boost at a particular frequency.

[sixx_ gunner]

Grandturk, Thanks for the details on how these work. Been thinking about adding one to my jams. I haven't had the nuts to play with one while at the guitar shops cause I wasn't aware how they worked.

Sorry to hijack this one, but quickly, what is a good user friend version of Wah pedal to use with my Line 6 Spider 3?
I see the Slash version with the built in distortion, the Bad Horsie, the Zak pedal etc.....a little lost on which to try to learn with.

Again, Sorry to jack this one~

[AlexL]

Thanks.

The distortion pedal I was using is a Duncan Mayhem; set pretty high.

I have a Timmy drive pedal as well. But that Timmy is more of a boost/crunch, and the wah may sound best before that one.

I'll experiment with it more tonight, hopefully, based on the sleeping schedule of our new puppy.

I may try the crybaby too, but the manager at the store seemed to favor the Budda. Less bells and whistles that the crybaby, but he said it was less muddy in high gain situations.

I went there to buy one, but he just loaned me one so I could try it out at practice Friday. Saturday I can bring it back and try he crybaby if I'm not feelin' the Budda.

- E.

[Grandturk]

Grandturk, Thanks for the details on how these work. Been thinking about adding one to my jams. I haven't had the nuts to play with one while at the guitar shops cause I wasn't aware how they worked.

Sorry to hijack this one, but quickly, what is a good user friend version of Wah pedal to use with my Line 6 Spider 3?
I see the Slash version with the built in distortion, the Bad Horsie, the Zak pedal etc.....a little lost on which to try to learn with.

Again, Sorry to jack this one~

Don't go nuts - just get a cheapie Crybaby or Vox wah - $50 or so. The differences between the endorsed wahs and the others are so slight you won't notice it unless you know what you're looking for.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=151000X

[AlexL]

Grandturk, Thanks for the details on how these work. Been thinking about adding one to my jams. I haven't had the nuts to play with one while at the guitar shops cause I wasn't aware how they worked.

Sorry to hijack this one, but quickly, what is a good user friend version of Wah pedal to use with my Line 6 Spider 3?
I see the Slash version with the built in distortion, the Bad Horsie, the Zak pedal etc.....a little lost on which to try to learn with.

Again, Sorry to jack this one~

Stay out of my thread.

Just kidding.

As with anything, if you are not familiar with something, start simple. The Budda has no knobs or other settings. Just a rocker pedal, and an enable/disable switch at the toe position (gotta press hard to get it to switch). Test a simple unit out before moving on to ones with a bunch of added features.

- E.

[Newc]

I've got a Crybaby and have never been able to get it to sound good as the first thing in the chain.

Note for me, the Wah has to have the range that Jimi's and SRVs wah did on Voodoo Chile.

All I get from it when it's in front of my MP-1 is something very similar to the old Jackson MidSweep circuit. When it's in the loop with the preamp running into the pedal, I get "Hendrix".

Even when I was just using my amp and not the rack, the wah went in the loop becuase through the front sounded too narrow.

I did have to add a knob to the pedal to control the sweep range, though. The top end was way harsh for me, so the knob acts like a top-limit.

[AlexL]

I've got a Crybaby and have never been able to get it to sound good as the first thing in the chain.

Note for me, the Wah has to have the range that Jimi's and SRVs wah did on Voodoo Chile.

All I get from it when it's in front of my MP-1 is something very similar to the old Jackson MidSweep circuit. When it's in the loop with the preamp running into the pedal, I get "Hendrix".

This is similar to what I was experiencing.

- E.

[Spivonious]

I also experienced that when I was borrowing my friend's CryBaby, but I didn't think of putting it in the loop instead.

[Rupe]

No true "right" answer as to where a wah goes in the chain, although most people prefer it first. I personally like it better after my overdrive as it gives it a more pronounced effect...think of Randy Rhoads and his wah sweeps in "I Don't Know".

[Grandturk]

Honestly, I don't think I've ever tried a wah in the loop. I would say, a lot depends on what sound you want to hear. I've never had a problem getting a good wah sound in front of the amp.

On the Budda vs. Crybaby issue - the difference is $170 vs. $70 (and theres all kinds of crybaby's that will go up up up in price, over the Budda). If you can hear the difference in the wah sound and like the more expensive version - get it.

I got by for years with an old Morley wah, and then a Snarling Dogs Mold Spore wah - that was a great wah sound, BTW (it was also a huge tone sucker).

[AlexL]

On the Budda vs. Crybaby issue - the difference is $170 vs. $70 (and theres all kinds of crybaby's that will go up up up in price, over the Budda). If you can hear the difference in the wah sound and like the more expensive version - get it.

The Crybaby 535Q is the other one the store had:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Dunlop-Crybaby-535Q-MultiWah-Pedal?sku=151016

I am liking the simplicity of the Budda. Plus, it's magenta. Not sure that a bunch of knobs and switches on a wah is what I'm looking for.

I remember trying the 70.00 crybaby out several years ago and not being very enamoured with it.

Thanks for all of your input, BTW. It was helpful.


- E.

[Firebird V]

I always run my wah out front. I think it sounds better in front but I know lots of people who run it in the loop and they can get it to sound good so whatever you like is all good. I am using a behringer hell babe wah. 30 bucks but I love the sound from it. I had a bunch of high end wahs including the very expensive dunlop rack mounted dsr unit and the hell babe i prefer... go figure.

[jgcable]

the most common way to place it is directly after the guitar.

[roodyrocker]

I went with the Fulltone Clyde Deluxe. Its a lot more expensive than a Crybaby but it has a better sweep and has a few different settings on the side of the unit (Jimi, Shaft, Whacked) and also has a volume knob to equalize the volume settings. It was so much better than a Crybaby that I gave away my Crybaby to a friend of mine and never looked back If a standard Crybaby sounds fine to you nd you like the way it sweeps then save the extra $ and by all means go with that. But if you're more particular about your Wah then try out others like the Budda, Fulltone, Tease Picture wah, etc...