Hybrid amps - opinions?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

The warmth and feel comes primarily from the power section, not the preamp.

Exactly what I meant to say, thank you.

I call it gimmicky because I seem to remember a lot of marketing hype from back in the day, making claims about equaling a tube amp's warmth and sustain by using a tube *preamp* and this is not the important part, it's the power amp section, and yes, it must be cranked up.

So, I'm assuming that today's amps are just "more of the same" and so is the marketing.

Maybe I should look at some of these newer amps, they sound interesting. Admittedly I'm a little ignorant about what the newer amps can do, and personally I have no stake in tube amps being outdone; I'd love to be able to get the warmth and tone I like without having my ears ring for an hour.

[toejam]

I loved my marshall 8100 vavlestate head.

That first series of Valvestates was awesome. I've still got my 8240 stereo chorus 2x12 (bought new around '92 or '93, whenever it came out) and it's still going strong as my living room amp.

[toejam]

i have hybrid amps that go the other way, tube power amp SS preamp. i really liked my marshall 3203 and i had an old musicman amp once that was like that. it was pretty cool.

There's some old Peavey amps that also had tube power amp with SS preamp.

[marcus]

This is partially correct. Most tube amps still have solid state rectifiers. A rectifier ultimately effects the feel and response, not so much the tone. You are right about the trannies...an often disregarded element that has a huge effect on tone.

I am aware that most tube amps have solid state rectifiers, I was just speaking generally. I disagree that they have no affect on tone, tube rectifier sag adds some compression to the sound which I would say is very much a component of tone.

This is mostly wrong. Even at low volumes there is a noticable difference in tone (and feel) between tube and solid state power. A good tube amp will have a smoother, "bigger" sound in most cases. When they are cranked is when they start to add extra distortion and compression to the tone...sometimes desirable (Plexi Marshall, tweed Fender, etc), sometimes not (most high gain amps and tube power amps).

How is what I said wrong? Power tubes don't clip until they reach high volumes. Some amps, especially low wattage ones, can do this at somewhat reasonable volumes, but you still have to turn the volume way up. They do sound different than transistors at lower volumes, sure, but the difference is more pronounced at higher volumes. The transformer cuts off bass frequencies more at higher volumes as well.

As for metal, you can do it both ways. If I crank my Plexi or even my old Deluxe Reverb, I can play classic metal all day long...or until the police show up Most modern high gain amps do indeed derive their drive from the preamp section, in which case the power section will ideally be designed to stay clean and not add any additional saturation. That said, they still sound better (to me and the other players I know at least) through tube power (I have tried running a pre-out onto a high powered ss power amp with less than satisfying results).

You are right, there are different ways to achieve a metal tone. You will never get to insane amounts of distortion with power amp clipping alone, however. As you noted, modern metal tones require preamp clipping.

Is it gimmicky to have a tube pre with ss power? I won't go that far, but with ss and modeling technology these days for tone generation (not power), I would say there is nothing beneficial to it. The warmth and feel comes primarily from the power section, not the preamp.

Hey, they're not for everybody. I don't have one either

The concept makes sense for some tones, though.

[VitaminG]

Any time you use a stomp box in front of a JCM800, you have a hybrid. So it's not really too unusual.

really? By what definition? Tube pre, tube power, SS clipping = hybrid? So most modern high gain "tube" amps are actually hybrids?

I used a Fender RocPro1000 head and Carvin VE212 cabinet when I had a band, and not once did anyone in the audience (guitarist or non-guitarist) seem to care whether the amp was all tube or half-tube.

Just sayin'

well, if your crappy playing can divert the punters' attention from your crappy tone, then more power to ya!

There's some old Peavey amps that also had tube power amp with SS preamp.

didn't some of the Tubeworks stuff have a similar setup?

I have a 120W Laney Tube Fusion TF300. It's a decent amp. Can do a good scoopy modern metal sound, the clean is useable, but it's not much chop for lower gain sounds. All in all, it's a good bedroom amp. Have gigged with it but wouldn't recommend it. Took it to rehearsal recently when my 30w tube combo took a dump - the Laney has enough volume to play along with the band but gets thin & harsh getting up to rehearsal volumes, let alone gig volumes with the drummer mic'd up

[toejam]

didn't some of the Tubeworks stuff have a similar setup?

It's possible. I'm not really all that familiar with the Tubeworks line.

[Rich#6]

Which 2 do you like?

us90's and the uk modern I think are the 2

[DonP]

really? By what definition? Tube pre, tube power, SS clipping = hybrid? So most modern high gain "tube" amps are actually hybrids?

By definition that a stomp box (TS , SD, DS, MT-2, etc) is adding SS distortion to the 800's tube distortion.

[DonP]

There's some old Peavey amps that also had tube power amp with SS preamp.

Yes, the Peavey Classic VTX, my first "tube" amp

I saw tubes in the back and thought it was a tube amp. Stupid newbie. But it did sound good and I was able to get some cool tones out of it. I look for a cheap one every now and again.

[markD]

Yes, the Peavey Classic VTX, my first "tube" amp

I saw tubes in the back and thought it was a tube amp. Stupid newbie. But it did sound good and I was able to get some cool tones out of it. I look for a cheap one every now and again.

that is one of the amps used by tom warrior when he was in "hellhammer" to get those early black metal sounds. one of those was used on celtic frost's "morbid tales" also.

[fuel0707]

didn't some of the Tubeworks stuff have a similar setup?

Nope, completely the opposite in the case of the RT-2100 combo. It was a tube preamp with a solid-state power amp. Tube Works' flagship power amp was the MosValve, which was solid-state. Billy Gibbons did some of the promo ads for that line.

[DrDestruction]

I've still got my early-eighties Fender Princeton Reverb II (the one that Paul Rivera designed when he contracted with the company way back when). It's a bitchin' amp- sounds great clean, sounds pretty good dirty, too. A friend of mine said it was "the loudest 20-watt amp [he's] ever heard!".