Turn it up... amp rant!!!

[jgcable]

My band Fools Faith has been doing some pretty large shows lately and I have to rant about something.
Guitar amp stage volume!!!

I play out of a Mesa Boogie Mark III green stripe shorthead and a Marshall 1960B bottom loaded with T75's.
Why don't you ask me where my master volume was on?
2.5
That sucks because when we rehearse I am on about 3.5-4 which is where the amp really starts sounding good. 2.5 sucks.
I had no problem hearing myself at any of the gigs because in addition to the 3 wedge monitors we have in front, we also have 2 large cross stage monitors. The problem I have is not being able to get to the sweet spot on my amp. I have had the same problem with just about every tube amp I have ever owned live except for the Vetta 2.
I always tell the soundguy to turn me down in the PA a little so that I can turn my amp up. I have also tried facing the amp in a different direction but I don't like to rely on monitors only for my sound.
The 2 warm up bands had tiny amps. One guitar player was using a little Marshall Valvestate 1 x 12 combo and the other one was playing a Line 6 Spider II 1 x 12. The other bands were all using little 1 x 12 or 2 x 12 combo's.. all solid state low end stuff. My band.... we have Boogies and V-3's, SVT Pro's, Marshall cabs, and visually.... they look really good. In reality... our sound was only marginally better than any other of the bands because our amps were barely off STANDBY!!!
These guys are showing up to their gigs with equipment in there compact cars. We show up with 2 trucks.
Look my JCF brethren..... I JUST WANNA TURN THAT MUTHA UP!!!!
Anyway.. thats my rant.

[markD]

does your amp have the simulclass feature? if so, run it the way i run my rivera. my head is 120 watts. by using the various power stage features, at most gigs i am running it around 15 watts per side:

* 4 EL34 = 60x2 (stereo amp)
* i then use half power, which (duh) cuts the output to 30 watts per side.
* then i use the power tubes in triode (instead of pentode) to get about 15 watts.

it is still LOUD, but the sweet spot is hit at a better volume level.

mark boogie MKIV was simulclass. i use to use it in triode/half power also. it got the goods a lot quicker. if your MKIII has it, try that. you WILL need to retweak your setting a bit because use a different power stage causes the tubes to react differently - usually there are more mids (with EL34s anyway) - and the power tubes compress more. the tones are very usuable. give it a shot and see what happens.

if you don't have simulclass, then never mind!!

[jgcable]

does your amp have the simulclass feature? if so, run it the way i run my rivera. my head is 120 watts. by using the various power stage features, at most gigs i am running it around 15 watts per side:

* 4 EL34 = 60x2 (stereo amp)
* i then use half power, which (duh) cuts the output to 30 watts per side.
* then i use the power tubes in triode (instead of pentode) to get about 15 watts.

it is still LOUD, but the sweet spot is hit at a better volume level.

mark boogie MKIV was simulclass. i use to use it in triode/half power also. it got the goods a lot quicker. if your MKIII has it, try that. you WILL need to retweak your setting a bit because use a different power stage causes the tubes to react differently - usually there are more mids (with EL34s anyway) - and the power tubes compress more. the tones are very usuable. give it a shot and see what happens.

if you don't have simulclass, then never mind!!

My Boogie is running EL34's and 6L6's. It has a 1/2 power switch on the front but the only noticeable decrease on 1/2 power is the amount of clean headroom on channel 1. I'll check it out though.
I am pretty sure that the green stripe Mark III's don't have the triode thing. They are pentode only.

[toxikdeth]

You could always get an atenuater and if you don't want that maybe solid state would be more ideal

[Endrik]

I always tell the soundguy to turn me down in the PA a little so that I can turn my amp up.

NO, you should tell the soundguy to turn up the PA, you don't want the amp to be louder than the PA, if you crank your amp then he should do the same with PA

[Newc]

You have to watch out for someone else losing themselves in your cabinet, and thus not being able to hear themselves.

However, if you want your amp to sound a certain way, I certainly see no problem with the gain on your amp mic being cut back a tad (or your output being mixed with the rest of the band as long as you're not peaking the mic input). It's not like you're on 10 and the fader is on 2. Boards generally sound the same at all levels, but tube amps will definitely sound different at different levels because of how much air the speakers are moving.

You will have to get your own soundguy and work with him and the rest of the band to develop the sound you're after so the PA speakers can push the amount of air they need to push so the crowd hears your amp the way you hear it.

[Tim_B]

how about having your cab to your side or in front of you, so you can have it louder than 2.5 to get the tone you want, but the audience doesn't hear it as much?
I used to use a marshall 1936 2x12 tipped up like a wedge monitor that way, I had my own little 'world of guitar' on stage, but the front of house sound wasn't affected
just my 2 pence

[skintaster]

I feel your pain. My old band toured about 4 to 5 months out of the year, and we all played large amps. We played all sorts of venues, from large halls to small clubs, and encountered a variety of sound systems along the way. I found that in all but a few instances I never really got to open my amp up enough for my taste. I played a duel rectifier, and eventually got sick of lugging it all over North America since I rarely was able to crank it anyway.

My new band is just starting out, so we're playing smaller venues anyways, so I'm thinking of leaving my half stack at home, and playing through my rebel 20 with a distortion box to get the sound I want. It won't look as impressive on stage, but it'll sit just fine in the passenger seat of my car.

[markD]

the tough part is the cool stage look. i could get away with using half the gear i do onstage, but it looks cooler and adds to the "show" if i use it. back to the volume issue, i have also taken my rig and set it up on the side of the stage shooting across toward the bass player. the sound man was happy, i was happy, bass player was happy....but it looked stupid. there was nothing behind me.

what we tried was taking PVC piping and building a frame and using it to support screens with a gnarled tree on it (part of our logo). it looked KILLER, but was WAAAYYY too much to set up, especially since some of the venues wouldn't let our "roadies" (friends that wanna be part of the band) in the staging area.

it sucks john. i am surprised that they just don't turn you down at the PA to be truthful. it is annoying.

[skintaster]

the tough part is the cool stage look. i could get away with using half the gear i do onstage, but it looks cooler and adds to the "show" if i use it. back to the volume issue, i have also taken my rig and set it up on the side of the stage shooting across toward the bass player. the sound man was happy, i was happy, bass player was happy....but it looked stupid. there was nothing behind me.

what we tried was taking PVC piping and building a frame and using it to support screens with a gnarled tree on it (part of our logo). it looked KILLER, but was WAAAYYY too much to set up, especially since some of the venues wouldn't let our "roadies" (friends that wanna be part of the band) in the staging area.

it sucks john. i am surprised that they just don't turn you down at the PA to be truthful. it is annoying.

I can relate... My old band had a very developed stage show... It involved several dancers that performed a bondage/fetish show while we performed, and some of there props were MASSIVE. At one point, they had a steel cage built, that weighed hundreds of pounds, and there were a lot of other large props and set pieces.

The advantage was that as my rig got smaller, the other elements of the show made up for it visually.

[Newc]

But, now you know why the other bands had smaller amps - so they could crank it up.

I won't suggest doing that if the venue/stage is large enough to hold a 4x12. Get with the soundguy on it and make him understand how and why your settings are not going to be the same as the other guys with smaller amps.

[bombtek]

Use the Suck Knob!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-SUCK-KNOB-VOLUME-CONTROL-FOR-YOUR-MARSHALL-AMP_W0QQitemZ160336306674QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item2554c9e1f2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A2067%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I've heard it, it works!!!!

Besides what a cool fukkin name !!!

[atdguitars]

I make these in the shop. 2 jacks, a 500k pot,a hobby (project box) from radio shack, and knob de'jour. They work well when you don't want to use a soak or a brake. It's under 10 bucks in parts and 15 minutes with a soldering iron and a drill. You can also use a treble bleed in the circuit if you think you're losing some of your highs.

[beachjammer]

That's one reason I went to 50 watt tube amps and they're actually still too loud. I finally just got 2 1x12 cabs, sit them on either side of the stage and don't even run through the main system most of the time. If I were you though, I think that I'd keep what I have but possibly unplug the Marshall 4x12 and run into an ISO cab. That way you can turn your volume where you want it and not effect anyone else. All the sound man has to do is adjust your channel gain input on the PA. You could rig up a nice ISO cab for cheap. Get one of the Mesa 1x12 Recto cabs with a V30 and set a roadcase lid on top of it.

[zeegler]

I agree most whole heartedly.

That's why I bought the F-30. However, it's still loud as FUCK!! (and trust me, FUCK is very loud).