What's all the hype about Axe Fx?

[MOSHWITZ]

There are NO Fractal endorsements,,,its in a thread somewhere ...Steve Vai asked if he could have one,,and it was said ,,,Yeah sure, they are 1999.00,, and he said,,But I'm Steve Vai,,how much is it for ME,,,and it was said,,,,Oh, well, in that case it would be...ummmm...1999.00.

Ya gotta love Cliff's Integrity.

MOSHON
DAVE

[hippietim]

I guess I will have to reserve my judgement on the Axe-Fx until I actually hear one in a band setting live... I need to hear the Axe-Fx in a band that has 2 guitar players where the other guitar player is using a traditional amp.

Come down to Raleigh for our next gig. You can stay at my place. I'll take you out for barbeque and beers.

I would also like to hear how a correctly set up Axe-Fx Ultra stacks up to the real amp its modeling.

There are some great demos that some folks have done on the Axe-FX forum. It's very impressive.

Personally I don't try to emulate anything - I just dial in sounds I like.

[hippietim]

I may go out on a limb on this.. but I would bet dollars to donuts that most players are not plugging directly into the house PA.

I do.

One of my best friends came to see my new band a couple weeks ago. He and I played together since the 80's in hair metal bands and everything in between. He was floored at how good our mix was and how well the guitar sat in the mix.

Ever since we've started going direct our mixes have been killer. No more fucked up unbalanced sound because you're standing in the wrong spot. No more sucky preamp distortion tones because you can't crank your amp. No more inconsistent tone in every club. No more difficulty controlling stage volume.

[hippietim]

For me.. if I am going from a Dokken type gain to an AC/DC type gain I just roll my guitar volume down to around 6. Thats basically like going from a modded JCM800 to a Plexi.

Guess what, me too!

I can do the same thing with the Axe-FX. It responds like a real amp. This isn't like the Line 6 and Boss stuff where everything gets buzzy and thin when you lower your guitar volume.

[hippietim]

I am not really in the market for another Vetta although I do miss having one because I just love tweaking. I would never gig with one again though. My bandmates aren't into it. I spend much more time playing rather than tweaking now that I use a simple basic rig.

The hell with the Vetta. I had two of those. I've also had a POD Pro, Pod XT Pro, Boss GT-10. I wouldn't gig with any of those.

The Vetta is not even close to the Axe-FX.

[hippietim]

I agree about getting cranked amp tone at low volumes... but in regards to the weight and space.. you still need cabinets, you still need a power amp, you still need an equipment rack, you still need a foot controller. Thats all stuff you need to carry. All I have is an amp head, a 4 x 12 cab and a bag with some effects in it.

My rig is much easier to carry now:

• MIDI foot controller - about 15lbs in a case I've had for years and finally have a use for
• FBT Verve 12ma (powered speaker) - 42lbs
• 6-space rack w/Axe-FX, power supply, MOTU MIDI interface, X2 Rack wireless - probably 45lbs

For comparison, my Diezel Herbert weighed like 60lbs, my 4x12 weighs 80lbs, and my pedal board weighs about 30lbs. If that were my Bogner Fish rig instead of the Herbert, it'd be about 70lbs instead.

So I'm traveling about 80lbs lighter, not to mention anyone can carry any piece of my rig by themselves.

There are almost no places to play where you can turn up Herbert or my 2:90 power amp anywhere near to where they need to be to get "that" sound. So it barely fucking matters what power section you have because you are not utilizing for much in terms of tone.

[DHardmanJr]

I think one important point which I don't remember being mentioned is that modelers like the Axe FX can actually serve to help someone find their ideal "real" tube amp.

Let's face it, there are so many makes and models of amps out there it can be difficult to find the flavor that is the best match for you. And most of the boutique type amps are difficult to find in most cities to try them out. Demo clips on youtube can only tell you so much.

With something like the Axe FX, which seems to have a very healthy list of amp models, you can try out all sorts of different setups including boutique and higher end amps. Assuming the models are reasonably close to the real thing using the Axe FX or other modelers you can get a good education on the types of amps out there and which "real" amp might be the best fit for the 2-3 main sounds we each use.

[jgcable]

All great comments but this thread is starting to repeat itself. But I guess that's bound to happen with a thread of this size.

"Famous" folks spotted using the AxeFx:

Dweezil Zappa
Meshuggah
Michael Schenker
Ty Tabor
Jeff Loomis
Peter Thorn
Larry Mitchell
Adrian Belew
Marty Friedman
Greg Howe

All great players for sure. I guess I will have to reserve my judgement on the Axe-Fx until I actually hear one in a band setting live. I would also like to hear how a correctly set up Axe-Fx Ultra stacks up to the real amp its modeling. For instance.. I never thought the Vetta did a good Marshall tone. Not any kind of Marshall for that matter. I did think it did an incredible Mesa Rectifier tone until.. I took mine to band rehearsal and the other guitar player actually had a Dual Rectifier running through a full stack of Mesa oversized 4 x 12 cabs. I was running a Vetta 2 through 2 Marshall 1960 cabs. I dialed up my Mesa patch, he turned on his Rectifier and proceeded to make my Vetta 2 vanish into thin air. The basic sound was almost spot on at low volumes but at live moderate band level it wasn't even close. At loud band level I couldn't hear my rig at all. The clean tones were a different story though. The Vetta was much easier to hear. Its funny... I have been into modeling since the beginning and the wall I would constantly run into is perceived tone and actual tone. The patches I would create were my perceived version of the amps I was trying to emulate. For instance.. on the Vetta there is a patch called Mississippi Criminal. It is based on a 5150. I own a 5150II and I have owned several original 5150's. At the time I didn't have one. I thought the Vetta NAILED the 5150 tone. So much so.. that I brought it to rehearsal to A/B it against an actual 5150. My perceived tone and the actual amp tone were very different. The actual 5150 had so much more body. The Vetta 5150 sounded like a recorded version of a 5150. It lacked all the little nuances of the 5150. The basic tone was there but when you turned both of the amps up there was no comparison. The 5150 roared. The Vetta 5150 just got louder. Of course.. the Axe-Fx is apparently light years ahead of the Vetta 2 but I think my basic analysis is the same.
Again.. I can't wait to hear one live in a club setting with a real band and real amps. I can't base my opinion on a solo player doing a clinic. I also can't base my opinion on a band that only has 1 guitar player. I need to hear the Axe-Fx in a band that has 2 guitar players where the other guitar player is using a traditional amp.

[Chad]

All great comments but this thread is starting to repeat itself. But I guess that's bound to happen with a thread of this size.

"Famous" folks spotted using the AxeFx:

Dweezil Zappa
Meshuggah
Michael Schenker
Ty Tabor
Jeff Loomis
Peter Thorn
Larry Mitchell
Adrian Belew
Marty Friedman
Greg Howe

[Matt_B]

All great points. I'm not prejudice against the the Axe-Fx. I am just posting a counter opinion based on my experience with both modeling and traditional amps.

If you're basing your opinion of the Axe-FX on your experience with other modelers and amps and not on playing the Axe-FX yourself, I would consider that "prejudging", or showing prejudice, towards. There's nothing wrong with that because we are all prejudice about gear to some degree. We played a guitar brand X years ago and it sucked so we now may think that all guitars from brand X suck. That's normal to a degree.

Regarding the Axe-Fx being out for 3 years.. obviously the recent exposure is due to some famous players seen using this system.

There really aren't that many famous players using them at this time, maybe 5-7. It's mostly been word of mouth.

Lots of times.. that has to do with endorsements. Maybe Fractal Audio recently started an endorsement deal. If thats the case.. good for them. Its about time somebody gave Line 6 a run for their money.

I understand your point about endorsements and while I don't know if sure if FA is doing endorsements, I'd be surprised because they're such a small company right now. As far as giving Line 6 a run for their money, I don't see that happening anytime soon because the majority of Line 6 products are in a whole other price point.

In your response to th Axe-Fx not being a software amp... well.. I was told it is. Maybe you can correct me on this but I was told it is a digital processor not much unlike a multi-core processor in a new computer. It is not an analog processor. The reason it smokes any of the recent modeling amps out is because of its processing power.

Actually what I said was "it's not just that" (a software amp) but also an amazing effects processor, on par with an Eventide Eclipse which costs $2K (as much as an Axe-FX Ultra) and it doesn't have 1/2 the power and flexibility of the Axe-FX. The other point I made was there's more to the Axe-FX than its software and CPU power. The analog components are top shelf. When you're trying to get the best possible sound and quality, ever component has to be the best possible.

I was also told that the guy who developed this thing at Fractal Audio is a genius and really listens to what musicians want. Thats a great thing and its about time somebody listened.

I would agree with anyone who said he's a genius but I'm punch drunk on the FA Kool-Aid so I'm biased. As far as giving musicians what they want, the rate at which firmware upgrades are released is astonishing. I got my first Ultra the second week of June and by the end of the July 2 more firmware revisions had been released.

Regarding the Vetta, if Line 6 had held out and not rushed releasing the Vetta and instead released the Vetta 2 they would have had much better success. The Vetta 2 was everything the Vetta should have been. Its a great amp.

I've never played through a Vetta 2 so I will have to take your word for it.

Regarding multiple Marshall amp tones.. thats great at home and in the studio but when you are playing live.. its a soundmans nightmare and rarely does a guitar player need different types of Marshall tones. For me.. if I am going from a Dokken type gain to an AC/DC type gain I just roll my guitar volume down to around 6. Thats basically like going from a modded JCM800 to a Plexi.

I agree that in a live situation some of the nuances between different models of brand X can be hard to distinguish but the fact remains you can select whichever one you want and use that one.

Regarding multiple Mesa amp tones.. there are basically 3 types.
Mark, Rectifier and Stiletto. A Mark tone is similar to a Marshall but with less mids. Its harsher and it has a ton more bottom end. Rectifier is all the sizzle and not a ton of mids. It also has alot of bottom. You can get most of the Mesa tones from a Dual or Triple Recto or a Mark IV. The Stiletto is basically a hot rodded Marshall IMHO, The Mark IIC+ and most of the Mark III's are dark sounding bottom heavy Marshall type tones.

I with you on all of that. I've owned a few different Mesas in my time and sold quite a few of them when I worked in a music store for 12 yrs.

Trying to go from a Rectifier tone to a Mark tone live... after the soundman has done a sound check is another nightmare so doing it with a modeling amp isn't much better. I know first hand about that. Usually.. the best tone you are going to get live is the tone that the soundman soundchecks before the gig and tweaks a little during. That is usually a clean tone, a rhythm tone and a lead tone.

I agree with what your'e saying but in my opinion, it's not necessarily about using all these different amp sounds in a live situation but rather picking the one you want and going with it. If you have a real Rectifier amp, it's only going to get a certain set of sounds. If you get sick of that, you're only option is to get another amp. There's only so much you can do to make an amp sound different.

The last "amps" I played were MP-1s and while they were great at getting "that" sound that's all they could do. When I first got my Ultra, I began my search for "that" sound and about 6 hours later I found it. I was estatic to say the least.

But, for the past few days, I've had the urge to sit down and work on my blues/jazz phrasing so I've been listening to Robben Ford...and he's never used MP-1s as far as I know. So I broke out the Les Paul and started trying out presets on the Axe-FX and found one that used the Dumble that I liked. With a little tweaking (30 minutes or so) I got a sound I was happy with.

Believe me, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the models in the Axe-FX sound exactly the same/just as good as the real thing. It would be pointless because that's highly subjective. However, I will say that they sound pretty darn close to "as good" and folks that have tried it for themselves would agree.

What I will say is true is that it responds to dynamics just like a tube amp. When you roll down your volume, it makes a huge difference. I'm very picky about that because like a lot of players, I do that all the time. I have yet to play any other modeler that has that level of dynamic range which to me puts the Axe-FX in class all by itself.

[Chad]

A corporate cover band is the same thing as a wedding band but without the nuptuals.

I believe there was a thread about the cover band issue recently and it had many differing opinions. Whatever the case, Tian is playing in front of fairly large crowds, and he is making a good living solely from playing music. He does supplement his income by making the tutorial DVDs and so forth, but I believe that is more of a hobby and desire to help people than anything else.

[jgcable]

how come you're in the market for another?

yea. Apart from the usual immediate "it's crap, nothing will ever replace a tooob amp" responses by people who had never tried it, a lot of folks seemed open to the Vetta & its possibilities and actually tried it before deciding if it was for them or not. And it still has a lot of fans.

The response to the Axe-Fx seems even more favourable, particularly from people who have tried it. And unlike the Vetta, a lot of the hype is coming from groundswell rather than big advertising push. Word of mouth carries weight, particularly if you respect the voice of the one trumpeting the cause. Look at some of the folks in this thread that are touting the Axe-Fx - you've got folks who have owned some serious gear AND who play out who have actually played the Axe-Fx and can't stop raving about it.

And on the other hand, you have bedroom players who almost bought a tube amp once time saying that the YouTube clips of the Axe-Fx don't compare to that MT-2 into the Krank they tried for 15 minutes at GC that one time.

I am not really in the market for another Vetta although I do miss having one because I just love tweaking. I would never gig with one again though. My bandmates aren't into it. I spend much more time playing rather than tweaking now that I use a simple basic rig.

[jgcable]

I'm not sure about Larry, but Tian is in a full scale corporate cover band with several players...and they play in front of fairly large crowds from what I understand.

Check out this vid of Clawfinger:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=122943

You may not dig the style of music, but you can't deny that is a good mix. Excellent clarity too especially when you consider Jocke (guitar player) tunes down to drop A (I believe). Both Jocke and the bass player are running into ONE AxeFx (i.e. they are sharing an AxeFx). Jocke commented that they basically had a non-existent soundcheck. I highly doubt they would have sounded that good under those conditions with a traditional gear setup.



I'm not a bass player, so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it's mostly related to tradition and visual appeal. Kinda like with acoustic drums vs. e-drums. E-drums make a lot of sense for the same reasons as guitar modelers, but they have little visual presence compared to an acoustic kit.

A corporate cover band is the same thing as a wedding band but without the nuptuals.

[Chad]

Are those guys in bands that gig or are they solo guitar players? There is a big difference. I could see a pro using Axe-Fx when doing clinics or trade shows or even multiple solo gigs in smaller locations but I just don't see pro players playing arena's using modeling amps.

I'm not sure about Larry, but Tian is in a full scale corporate cover band with several players...and they play in front of fairly large crowds from what I understand.

Check out this vid of Clawfinger:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=122943

You may not dig the style of music, but you can't deny that is a good mix. Excellent clarity too especially when you consider Jocke (guitar player) tunes down to drop A (I believe). Both Jocke and the bass player are running into ONE AxeFx (i.e. they are sharing an AxeFx). Jocke commented that they basically had a non-existent soundcheck. I highly doubt they would have sounded that good under those conditions with a traditional gear setup.

If that was the case.. how come most bass players still use large high wattage rigs live when all they really need is a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass DI and just show up at the gig with a bass guitar and a small carry on bag?

I'm not a bass player, so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it's mostly related to tradition and visual appeal. Kinda like with acoustic drums vs. e-drums. E-drums make a lot of sense for the same reasons as guitar modelers, but they have little visual presence compared to an acoustic kit.

[VitaminG]

Another point to ponder is this... if the Vetta and the Vetta 2 were that good.. how come most players that bought one ended up selling them.

how come you're in the market for another?

I remember a LOT more skepticism with the Vetta stuff...Seems like there are more "Tube guys" into this unit.

yea. Apart from the usual immediate "it's crap, nothing will ever replace a tooob amp" responses by people who had never tried it, a lot of folks seemed open to the Vetta & its possibilities and actually tried it before deciding if it was for them or not. And it still has a lot of fans.

The response to the Axe-Fx seems even more favourable, particularly from people who have tried it. And unlike the Vetta, a lot of the hype is coming from groundswell rather than big advertising push. Word of mouth carries weight, particularly if you respect the voice of the one trumpeting the cause. Look at some of the folks in this thread that are touting the Axe-Fx - you've got folks who have owned some serious gear AND who play out who have actually played the Axe-Fx and can't stop raving about it.

And on the other hand, you have bedroom players who almost bought a tube amp once time saying that the YouTube clips of the Axe-Fx don't compare to that MT-2 into the Krank they tried for 15 minutes at GC that one time.