What's all the hype about Axe Fx?

[jgcable]

Possible,
I'm just showing how much less you have to carry.

And if you used a Boss GT10 or a Line 6 X3 Live you would have even less to carry. Heck.. if you used a Sans Amp you could carry your rig in your guitar case compartment.

My point is that most players... I'll guess 95% of them... don't plug into a PA using a guitar processor. Maybe studio musicians and session players do but not the rest of us who are lugging our live rigs in and out of clubs every night. I do see alot of Spyder combos out in the clubs lately with mic's thrown in front of them and I have said in the past they sound pretty darn good. Still..they are conventional amps. I have yet to see a player show up with no amp and plug directly into the PA.

[jgcable]

Tube vs Sim is kinda like arguing about which chocolate tastes the best.

It's all good. I like dark, you like milk, someone else likes white, etc etc...

This isn't arguing. This is discussing. I enjoy all types of amps... SS, modeling, hybrid and all tube.

[jgcable]

You don't NEED a power amp, giant rack, & guitar cabs. Some folks do opt to go that route, but that's just one option of many. A couple examples:

Larry Mitchell is traveling with his AxeFx & MIDI controller all in a small rack bag.....it's a carry on when he flies. He just uses monitoring where ever he plays.

Tian Jay (well known on the Boss GT & Fractal forums) is another fella who will soon be doing the exact same thing once he gets his Liquid Foot Jr. He doesn't even mess with monitors.....he's all IEMs as far as I know.

Are those guys in bands that gig or are they solo guitar players? There is a big difference. I could see a pro using Axe-Fx when doing clinics or trade shows or even multiple solo gigs in smaller locations but I just don't see pro players playing arena's using modeling amps.
If that was the case.. how come most bass players still use large high wattage rigs live when all they really need is a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass DI and just show up at the gig with a bass guitar and a small carry on bag?
Regarding a giant rack... I never said that. At most.. you need 2 RMS for the power amp, 1 RMS for the Axe-FX (I think) and 1 RMS for a decent power conditioner. Thats not giant although with a decent tube power amp it will be a heavy mutha and just as much of a pain in the ass to carry as a tube amp. Have you ever seen how small a Mesa Mark III 120w all tube amp head is? Its tiny and not every heavy either. Even a JCM800 isn't that huge. Neither is a Soldano SLO. They are normal size.
A big amp head is a V3 or a Hiwatt. My Trademark 300 is light but its huge too. Funny too because its fairly empty!

[Flatpicker]

I may go out on a limb on this.. but I would bet dollars to donuts that most players are not plugging directly into the house PA.

Possible,
I'm just showing how much less you have to carry.

[Flatpicker]

Tube vs Sim is kinda like arguing about which chocolate tastes the best.

It's all good. I like dark, you like milk, someone else likes white, etc etc...

[jgcable]

I agree on the foot controller, but, if you are connecting to the house sound, you don't need the power amp or the cabinets. Just go direct to their soundboard.

I can whittle it down to a 2U rack and 1 controller and cables.

I may go out on a limb on this.. but I would bet dollars to donuts that most players are not plugging directly into the house PA.

[jgcable]

Lots of new gear garners hype when it first comes out but the Axe-FX is about 3 yrs old now and it's gathering steam. Things like the Vetta are popular at first because of what people believe it can do vs. what it can do which is only discovered after folks have had time to really put the gear through it's paces.

Not for me. I'm done with tubes and I've never said that before...ever.

You keep referring to as a "software amp" but it's not just that, it's also a top-of-the-line effects processor and some of the "magic" (in the Axe-FX) is not just software, it's also hardware.

I won't disagree with that. Analog synth patches are fun to play with but that's about all I've done with them. As for dual amp patches, I haven't even bothered to mess with those yet because I haven't found a need for it.

Agreed and the Axe-FX can do that six ways to Sunday. For example, I don't always like chorus for clean sounds. Sometimes I like to used pitch detuning.
Agreed and of course the Axe-FX can do this. The question then becomes which Marshall or Mesa do you want? JCM800, JCM900, JTM45? Rectifier, MK II, Triaxis?

Agreed and again the Axe-FX can do this.

While the Axe-FX can do these cabs, not everyone wants to or needs to push air through a guitar cab in a live situation. Be able to run through the main and monitors (be they wedges or IEMs) makes getting a well mixed sound so much easier. Not to mention

I've not found any of the other modelers (Boss, Line 6 or Vox) that respond to dynamics (be they volume control or pick driven) that respond like a tube amp does...or the Axe-FX. That's what sold me one it (after I tried it for myself).

Once you get all your patches set at home you feel like you can conquer the world. Then.. something aweful usually happens. You take your kick ass rig with your kick ass patches to rehearsal or to a gig and you wind up having tweak all your patches all over again while your bandmates get pissed off. They say.... "John, you only use a few basic tones.. and your last amp sounded great. Just a few pedals on the floor and you were good to go. Why do you need a rig that can give you any tone on the planet when you only need a few". My response was because it sounded cool and tweaking is fun. After spending hours retweaking my rig during rehearsal only to find out that I would have to retweak it if I used different cabs pushed me away from software driven modeling amps.

See, that's the thing. If you go away from a guitar based amplification solution (no tube amp and no guitar speakers) then you really don't need to re-tweak your patches. Using an FRFR solution makes your getting "your sound" consistently infinitely easier.

I agree. It does what it does but it's not infallible and it's invariably very limited.

Only time will tell but again, it's been around for 3 yrs. and the product is getting better all the time.

Again, the Axe-FX is 3 yrs old and it's constantly improving. There has never been a modeler manufacturer that consistenly released upgrades to their product as much as Fractal Audio has. It's also a very small company akin to other boutique amp manufacturers like Mesa and the like.

I agree to a point because for me, the true test was playing it for myself. Hearing how it sounds it one thing but "feeling" how it responds is a whole other thing.

Based upon the experience you've shared, I can understand your prejudice against the Axe-FX. I too felt the same way (to a point) until I tried it for myself. Once I could replicate the sound and feel of my MP-1s I was sold.

And please understand that I don't think any modeler, including the Axe-FX, is for everyone just like any other piece of gear. That said, the fact is no other manufacturer has taken the approach that Fractal Audio has from an engineering standpoint, design philosophy or support.[/QUOTE]

All great points. I'm not prejudice against the the Axe-Fx. I am just posting a counter opinion based on my experience with both modeling and traditional amps.
Regarding the Axe-Fx being out for 3 years.. obviously the recent exposure is due to some famous players seen using this system. Lots of times.. that has to do with endorsements. Maybe Fractal Audio recently started an endorsement deal. If thats the case.. good for them. Its about time somebody gave Line 6 a run for their money.
In your response to th Axe-Fx not being a software amp... well.. I was told it is. Maybe you can correct me on this but I was told it is a digital processor not much unlike a multi-core processor in a new computer. It is not an analog processor. The reason it smokes any of the recent modeling amps out is because of its processing power. I was also told that the guy who developed this thing at Fractal Audio is a genius and really listens to what musicians want. Thats a great thing and its about time somebody listened.
Regarding the Vetta, if Line 6 had held out and not rushed releasing the Vetta and instead released the Vetta 2 they would have had much better success. The Vetta 2 was everything the Vetta should have been. Its a great amp.
Regarding multiple Marshall amp tones.. thats great at home and in the studio but when you are playing live.. its a soundmans nightmare and rarely does a guitar player need different types of Marshall tones. For me.. if I am going from a Dokken type gain to an AC/DC type gain I just roll my guitar volume down to around 6. Thats basically like going from a modded JCM800 to a Plexi.
Regarding multiple Mesa amp tones.. there are basically 3 types.
Mark, Rectifier and Stiletto. A Mark tone is similar to a Marshall but with less mids. Its harsher and it has a ton more bottom end. Rectifier is all the sizzle and not a ton of mids. It also has alot of bottom. You can get most of the Mesa tones from a Dual or Triple Recto or a Mark IV. The Stiletto is basically a hot rodded Marshall IMHO, The Mark IIC+ and most of the Mark III's are dark sounding bottom heavy Marshall type tones.
Trying to go from a Rectifier tone to a Mark tone live... after the soundman has done a sound check is another nightmare so doing it with a modeling amp isn't much better. I know first hand about that. Usually.. the best tone you are going to get live is the tone that the soundman soundchecks before the gig and tweaks a little during. That is usually a clean tone, a rhythm tone and a lead tone.

I appreciate your comments. Lots of good reading and information in there for potential Axe-Fx users.

[Chad]

I agree about getting cranked amp tone at low volumes... but in regards to the weight and space.. you still need cabinets, you still need a power amp, you still need an equipment rack, you still need a foot controller. Thats all stuff you need to carry. All I have is an amp head, a 4 x 12 cab and a bag with some effects in it.

You don't NEED a power amp, giant rack, & guitar cabs. Some folks do opt to go that route, but that's just one option of many. A couple examples:

Larry Mitchell is traveling with his AxeFx & MIDI controller all in a small rack bag.....it's a carry on when he flies. He just uses monitoring where ever he plays.

Tian Jay (well known on the Boss GT & Fractal forums) is another fella who will soon be doing the exact same thing once he gets his Liquid Foot Jr. He doesn't even mess with monitors.....he's all IEMs as far as I know.

[Flatpicker]

I agree about getting cranked amp tone at low volumes... but in regards to the weight and space.. you still need cabinets, you still need a power amp, you still need an equipment rack, you still need a foot controller. Thats all stuff you need to carry. All I have is an amp head, a 4 x 12 cab and a bag with some effects in it.

I agree on the foot controller, but, if you are connecting to the house sound, you don't need the power amp or the cabinets. Just go direct to their soundboard.

I can whittle it down to a 2U rack and 1 controller and cables.

[Chad]

jgcable: I get what you're saying and agree with a lot of your points, but you are ignoring a lot of other info that has been gone over in this thread, so I'd give the thread another read. Whatever the case, like Matt said.......and AxeFx isn't for everybody, so if you don't want one that's fine.

BTW, have fun hauling around your monstrous tube rigs, playing your amp at volume level 1 when it sounds best cranked, dealing with mic setup & inconsistencies, stage volume issues, an inability to hear what the audience hears and tweaking your tone to its maximum for them, having little versatility, dealing with replacing/buying tubes, longer setup times, etc.

Another btw......with firmware 7.18 I am getting to where I can dial in good sounding high gain tones rather quickly. It's taken me awhile to learn my way around the AxeFx, but once there.....this thing just rules.

[jgcable]

I see what you are saying here, but, to me it's a matter of weight and space.
I don't want that huge 1/2 stack around when I can't use a 10th of the wattage or lug it around.

A sim lets me approximate cranked amps without having to crank the amp and break windows.

It's that simple to me.

I agree about getting cranked amp tone at low volumes... but in regards to the weight and space.. you still need cabinets, you still need a power amp, you still need an equipment rack, you still need a foot controller. Thats all stuff you need to carry. All I have is an amp head, a 4 x 12 cab and a bag with some effects in it.

[Flatpicker]

Keep in mind.. I am not saying that a Axe Fx doesn't sound great.. or warm.. or that it doesn't sound like a real amp. What I am saying is for most of us.. we really only need a good quality guitar amp, a speaker cabinet and a few basic stomp boxes or an effects processor.
Most of us are particular to one type of high gain tone and one type of clean tone.
No matter how many tones are crammed into a software amp.. you are only going to use the ones you are particular to and the ones that suit the music that you play.
I think a rig like the Axe Fx would be outstanding for a top 40 player or even better yet.. a wedding band player who needs a ton of different tones. I feel that way about any of the modelers out there. For the typical player in a metal band.. its not necessary to have a rig that can mimic a violin or a hundred different types of boutique amps. If you want a Marshall tone.. buy a Marshall or a hotrodded amp based on a Marshall. If you are in the Mesa club.. get a Boogie. Same thing with Engl, Bogner, Soldano etc... For the money it costs to build a live rig based on the Axe Fx you have a ton of live amp rigs to choose from. Based on what I read.. by the time you purchase an Ultra and a decent cab and a quality power amp you are probably in the $3000.00 range. You can get a heck of alot of real guitar amps for that kind of coin. Lets build a few.. shall we??
I'll start a new thread for it so we don't dilute this one any further...

I see what you are saying here, but, to me it's a matter of weight and space.
I don't want that huge 1/2 stack around when I can't use a 10th of the wattage or lug it around.

A sim lets me approximate cranked amps without having to crank the amp and break windows.

It's that simple to me.

[Matt_B]

I hate to say it guys but this is the same hype and action that threads got when the Vetta first came out.

Lots of new gear garners hype when it first comes out but the Axe-FX is about 3 yrs old now and it's gathering steam. Things like the Vetta are popular at first because of what people believe it can do vs. what it can do which is only discovered after folks have had time to really put the gear through it's paces.

Same thing is gonna happen with this software amp.

Not for me. I'm done with tubes and I've never said that before...ever.

I am the first one usually sucked into new technology. Luckily.. this software amp is just too expensive for my tastes.

You keep referring to as a "software amp" but it's not just that, it's also a top-of-the-line effects processor and some of the "magic" (in the Axe-FX) is not just software, it's also hardware.

Most players aren't going to play string patches through their guitars, most players don't need multiple amp sounds.

I won't disagree with that. Analog synth patches are fun to play with but that's about all I've done with them. As for dual amp patches, I haven't even bothered to mess with those yet because I haven't found a need for it.

What most players want is this....
A good to great clean tone with tons of headroom. This clean tone usually has some reverb or delay and some chorus on it.

Agreed and the Axe-FX can do that six ways to Sunday. For example, I don't always like chorus for clean sounds. Sometimes I like to used pitch detuning.

A good to great rhythm tone that is either based on a Mesa or a Marshall. It needs to be tight and articulate and react well to palm muting.

Agreed and of course the Axe-FX can do this. The question then becomes which Marshall or Mesa do you want? JCM800, JCM900, JTM45? Rectifier, MK II, Triaxis?

A nice saturated lead tone that is basically a boosted rhythm tone with more mids and some effects like delay,reverb or both.

Agreed and again the Axe-FX can do this.

The amp needs to be able to push air through a basic cabinet loaded with basic quality Celestion speakers. Most players use either V 30's or T75's.

While the Axe-FX can do these cabs, not everyone wants to or needs to push air through a guitar cab in a live situation. Be able to run through the main and monitors (be they wedges or IEMs) makes getting a well mixed sound so much easier. Not to mention

The amp needs to react well to volume differences on the guitar.

I've not found any of the other modelers (Boss, Line 6 or Vox) that respond to dynamics (be they volume control or pick driven) that respond like a tube amp does...or the Axe-FX. That's what sold me one it (after I tried it for myself).

So... thats 2 tones and a volume boost. For effects.. thats delay, reverb and chorus.

Why am I listing the above? Its because having a software driven modeling amp like a Axe FX or a Vetta or any other modeling rig turns a player from a player to a tweaker. You spend so much time tweaking you are barely playing.

I disagree. One can tweak as much or as little as they want. I still spend more time playing than tweaking because I know how to get what I want quickly.

Once you get all your patches set at home you feel like you can conquer the world. Then.. something aweful usually happens. You take your kick ass rig with your kick ass patches to rehearsal or to a gig and you wind up having tweak all your patches all over again while your bandmates get pissed off. They say.... "John, you only use a few basic tones.. and your last amp sounded great. Just a few pedals on the floor and you were good to go. Why do you need a rig that can give you any tone on the planet when you only need a few". My response was because it sounded cool and tweaking is fun. After spending hours retweaking my rig during rehearsal only to find out that I would have to retweak it if I used different cabs pushed me away from software driven modeling amps. [/QUOTE]See, that's the thing. If you go away from a guitar based amplification solution (no tube amp and no guitar speakers) then you really don't need to re-tweak your patches. Using an FRFR solution makes your getting "your sound" consistently infinitely easier.

There really is something to say about a good guitar amp, a good speaker cabinet and minimal effects in a live setting.

I agree. It does what it does but it's not infallible and it's invariably very limited.

I do think that this Axe FX craze is just that.. a craze. Sounds like an incredible technology to have in the recording studio though.

Only time will tell but again, it's been around for 3 yrs. and the product is getting better all the time.

Another point to ponder is this... if the Vetta and the Vetta 2 were that good.. how come most players that bought one ended up selling them.
Now.. if you respond " because they really weren't that good" I understand , but the Vetta was getting the same rave reviews that the Axe Fx is getting now.

Again, the Axe-FX is 3 yrs old and it's constantly improving. There has never been a modeler manufacturer that consistenly released upgrades to their product as much as Fractal Audio has. It's also a very small company akin to other boutique amp manufacturers like Mesa and the like.

All I am saying is don't be so quick to sell all your high end amps and effects for something that you can only hear clips online of. I want to hear one live in a club setting with a real band banging it out. Thats the true test.

I agree to a point because for me, the true test was playing it for myself. Hearing how it sounds it one thing but "feeling" how it responds is a whole other thing.

Based upon the experience you've shared, I can understand your prejudice against the Axe-FX. I too felt the same way (to a point) until I tried it for myself. Once I could replicate the sound and feel of my MP-1s I was sold.

And please understand that I don't think any modeler, including the Axe-FX, is for everyone just like any other piece of gear. That said, the fact is no other manufacturer has taken the approach that Fractal Audio has from an engineering standpoint, design philosophy or support.

[jgcable]

Keep in mind.. I am not saying that a Axe Fx doesn't sound great.. or warm.. or that it doesn't sound like a real amp. What I am saying is for most of us.. we really only need a good quality guitar amp, a speaker cabinet and a few basic stomp boxes or an effects processor.
Most of us are particular to one type of high gain tone and one type of clean tone.
No matter how many tones are crammed into a software amp.. you are only going to use the ones you are particular to and the ones that suit the music that you play.
I think a rig like the Axe Fx would be outstanding for a top 40 player or even better yet.. a wedding band player who needs a ton of different tones. I feel that way about any of the modelers out there. For the typical player in a metal band.. its not necessary to have a rig that can mimic a violin or a hundred different types of boutique amps. If you want a Marshall tone.. buy a Marshall or a hotrodded amp based on a Marshall. If you are in the Mesa club.. get a Boogie. Same thing with Engl, Bogner, Soldano etc... For the money it costs to build a live rig based on the Axe Fx you have a ton of live amp rigs to choose from. Based on what I read.. by the time you purchase an Ultra and a decent cab and a quality power amp you are probably in the $3000.00 range. You can get a heck of alot of real guitar amps for that kind of coin. Lets build a few.. shall we??
I'll start a new thread for it so we don't dilute this one any further...

[sevser]

I remember a LOT more skepticism with the Vetta stuff...Seems like there are more "Tube guys" into this unit.