Lack of low wattage METAL amps?

[Leo Chang]

Hi Guys,

Even though recently quite a few low wattage amps have been released, and some of them are very good... none of them are "metal" amps.

So my question is: is the lack of low wattage "metal" amps due to technical difficulties, or a perceived lack of potential market?

By "metal amp" I mean that the amp itself has enough gain and distortion to do metal on its own... no pedals.

In other words... why are there no 1 watt Uberschalls, 1 watt Rectos, 1 watt SLO100s...etc.

Esp. people who are amp techs... would appreciate your opinions


- Leo.

[Cygnus X1]

This one does.
Lacks the pedigree of the names you mentioned, but it works for me.

[Leo Chang]

That looks good!

Specs? And what style(s) do you play with it?

So I guess that means: there are no technical barriers to building a low wattage metal amp then. So it comes down to the amp builder's business decision making process... ? (whether there is enough of a market etc)

I have an Egnater Rebel 20 and a Blackstar HT-5. Both pretty good amps that can deliver up to hard rock kinda tones... but neither does metal "natively", which is too bad.

The HT-5 at 5 watts is actually still too loud for bedroom practice, if I were to rely exclusively on the amp itself for distortion. By the time I get to a good hard rock tone on it, it's already insanely loud. (through a 4x12)

The Rebel 20 (I run it in 1 watt mode) is more manageable, but through a 4x12, 1 watt is still very loud by the time I got to a good hard rock tone.

I am in a house where I can (and occasionally do) crank up my amps, but it would be nice to see some low wattage / sub-1 watt metal amps. More to save my ears than anything else.

Also, the infinitely-variable-wattage control on the Rebel 20 is awesome! More manufacturers should include this as a standard feature


- Leo.

[Cygnus X1]

Thank you, Leo.

I know I'll be getting into VVR circuits eventually, the reports are good and they aren't too expensive.

This one is about 5 watts give or take.
The majority of the distortion comes from the preamp driven hard.
It is easy enough to drive the power tube (that's part of the story behind the 2 gains plus a master volume on a single ended circuit).

Amount of distortion?
Far more than I ever need.
I usually have the gains at 1/2 to play classic Judas Priest, early 80's Scorpions levels.

[Leo Chang]

Thank you, Leo.

I know I'll be getting into VVR circuits eventually, the reports are good and they aren't too expensive.

This one is about 5 watts give or take.
The majority of the distortion comes from the preamp driven hard.
It is easy enough to drive the power tube (that's part of the story behind the 2 gains plus a master volume on a single ended circuit).

Amount of distortion?
Far more than I ever need.
I usually have the gains at 1/2 to play classic Judas Priest, early 80's Scorpions levels.

cool

- Leo.

[Grandturk]

I would say there's a much bigger market of lawyers that want to play Crossroads and Stormy Monday all day long through their hand wired 2 1/5 watt Tube Sniffer Special tweed combo than want a mini hi-gain monster.

Simple economics - if the market was there - they'll build it.

[markD]

+1

that and MOST metal guitarists are still trapped in the thought that "it ain't metal if it ain't a stack" - or at least 50 watts. also, from what i have gathered, most of these low watt mini amps anre designed to overdrive the powertubes for that classic saturation. MOST meatl guys want mostly preamp distortion and the powerstage to stay tight, without much - if any - breakup at all.

[roodyrocker]

Just use an Axe-Fx, it will work at whatever volume you want

[jgcable]

That is why modeling amps were created. IMHO.. there is no reason to cook tubes at 1 watt to get high gain tones at bedroom levels when you can go out and get a modeling amp that will do exactly what you want and a ton more.

[Grandturk]

Bingo! But don't let the tube-police hear you!

[Cygnus X1]

I've toyed with the modellers.
My opinion is that low watt tube options have not been designed to their potential quite yet.

That is why I build my "toaster" amps.


Tube tech, low volume, high gain, good tone without having to push a ton of air.

[jgcable]

I've toyed with the modellers.
My opinion is that low watt tube options have not been designed to their potential quite yet.

That is why I build my "toaster" amps.


Tube tech, low volume, high gain, good tone without having to push a ton of air.

Personally.. I don't thing anything beats a modeling amp for home bedroom tones. I have a Behringer LX112 V-Ampire 1 x 12 combo that KILLS for home use. I even did a few really small shows with it. It does everything great and I only use the factory presets.
Trying to get a low wattage amp to get super high gain tones just doesn't seem worth all the time, money and effort when you can go out and score a modeling amp for a few hundred and be good to go.

[jgcable]

Bingo! But don't let the tube-police hear you!

Hey, Sometimes am the tube police. I have been gigging with a Mesa Mark III Green stripe head and loving it and then.. something messed up happened. I scored a Tech 21 Trademark 300 SS head which is basically a Sansamp Tri-AC with a 300w power section. All of a sudden.. my Boogie is in the road case and I am rehearsing, recording and gigging with the Tech 21.
For me.. its whatever sounds good to me and my bandmates and the Tech 21 sounds the best out of any of our amps so far. In our studio we have a V3, the Mark III and a 5150II along with several Marshall 1960a and B cabinets and a 5150 Cab.

[jgcable]

I've toyed with the modellers.
My opinion is that low watt tube options have not been designed to their potential quite yet.

That is why I build my "toaster" amps.


Tube tech, low volume, high gain, good tone without having to push a ton of air.

Your amps look awesome. Great work.
I will go as far as saying I would stack my el-cheapo Behringer LX112 V-Ampire 1 x 12 modeling combo against any low wattage tube driven bedroom amp in regards to tone from anything from Fender clean, Vox or Marshall crunch to all out super high gain metal. At bedroom levels its hard to feel valves and its impossible to push air. Thats why modeling amps sound so good. They do a FANTASTIC job of faking it at low volumes. Its at high volume that most of them fall apart tonally.

[horns666]

Your amps look awesome. Great work.
I will go as far as saying I would stack my el-cheapo Behringer LX112 V-Ampire 1 x 12 modeling combo against any low wattage tube driven bedroom amp in regards to tone from anything from Fender clean, Vox or Marshall crunch to all out super high gain metal. At bedroom levels its hard to feel valves and its impossible to push air. Thats why modeling amps sound so good. They do a FANTASTIC job of faking it at low volumes. Its at high volume that most of them fall apart tonally.

Absolutely, Cygs..your amps look truly nice man. Like John, The 30 Spider II I bought my kid 3+ years ago is going CONSTANTLY between the both of us. He's at that "hungry" stage, and plays for hours on end. He cultivated one of the fastest, tightest palm muted right hands I've ever heard..WTF!!!

I was showing him some misc VH riffs today. I can't believe how fast he absorbs shit. You can find these amps all day for well under a buck. Wish I had this kinda stuff when I was his age. We had CRAP, and were happy to have it !