I guess I want a "modeler"?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

OK, I'm pretty much convinced on this.

I've been reading up on the FRFR vs. say, Crown power amp and 12" guitar speaker setups and it seems to me that this is the case:

You can get a good sound through a power amp and a good 12" guitar cabinet set-up, but the same patch that sounded great direct to the board for recording will require some tweaking, probably beyond just turning off the cab simulation.

I kind of suspect that if all of the patches used a 4x12 cab simulation and the live rig used a 4x12 that would be workable (save for the difference between the Axe-FX model and the "real" 4x12 you're using), but it seems like I'd be really limiting the usability of the system to "XX amp model through the same 4x12 cabinet again."

Given the 4 "basic sounds" I really want that might not be such a bad thing, but the Boogie Thiele cabs are like $900 a pair and I think I could get some decent FRFR for the same price.

But I'd feel so weird playing my guitar through something with woofers/tweeters.

[khabibissell]

How about a Digitech GSP1101? I recently picked up one of these to upgrade my JStation for home demo stuff. It sounds very good and is easy to tweak. It kicks the crap out of the Jstation and the POD XTLive that I had as far as sound quality and ease of getting a good tone are concerned. I've also tried it through the effects return of my Stiletto with impressive results. It may not be the holy grail, but it sounds great, is reasonably priced, ton of features, models, effects, MIDI controllable, etc... Check one out of you can find one in stock. They seem to be under the radar.

[Grandturk]

I think you just need to create the same patch twice - one optimized for direct and one optimized for going through and amp.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

flextone III dude. you can always disconnect the speaker if you want to run direct. and its the perfect marrage of modeling preamp, poweramp, and speaker(s). and with the floorboard, you'll have tempo tap, tunning, and channel switching right there for much less than all these other options.

[Matt_B]

But I'd feel so weird playing my guitar through something with woofers/tweeters.

I've been doing it for years and my sound is better than ever.

The design intent behind modelers is that they can get a large variety of sounds but they can only do that if the speakers they are feeding can also get a large variety of sounds (Full Range, Flat Response).

As soon as you start using guitar speakers then they're coloring your sound and limiting your options. That said, there's nothing inherently wrong with that as it's personal tastes and your needs. If it works for someone then it's the right way to go. All that matters is that one understand how a modeler interacts with various amplification solutions so whatever choice one makes is an educated one.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I think you just need to create the same patch twice - one optimized for direct and one optimized for going through and amp.

Sure, sure, but I mean at the same time. Axe-FX has 2 outs (effects send, and the actual balanced out) and it's pretty easy to add the effects loop out before the cabinet simulator in the chain - which you'd want to do if you're running into an actual cabinet.

So you get cab-simulated output run to the recorder/board/whatever and live "in the room" you hear YOUR cabinet instead of the cabinet simulater.

This isn't ideal. But for the 4 - 5 times a year I'd do something other than just monitoring through headphones it would be good enough.

[Spivonious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA_QtBXh9-4

Is that clip representative of the sounds? Because if so, it sounds like your typical modeler. Save some money and get a POD.

[Matt_B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA_QtBXh9-4

Is that clip representative of the sounds? Because if so, it sounds like your typical modeler. Save some money and get a POD.

No it is not representative of what the Axe-FX actually sounds like. Did you happen to look for any other videos or did you stop when you found the worst sounding one?

[Spivonious]

I listened to some more clips...really reminds me of the Vypyr to be honest. Just more settings. The Vypyr really gets that tube response to attack down.

It's also very hard to find a clip of any modeling amp with no effects. You can hide a bad sound very easily by layering in delay and reverb.

[Matt_B]

I listened to some more clips...really reminds me of the Vypyr to be honest. Just more settings. The Vypyr really gets that tube response to attack down.

I've played the Vypyrs (15, 30 and 60) and they're nice amps but they don't have the dynamic range and responsiveness of the Axe-FX.

It's also very hard to find a clip of any modeling amp with no effects. You can hide a bad sound very easily by layering in delay and reverb.

Not too mention how everything else in the signal chain affects the final sound which is why I don't go by how something sounds. There are plenty of guitar rigs that sound good to me but they don't feel right to me which is what I really care about.

I thought the vids of the Axe-FX sounded good (except for the abomination from Guitar World), it had the features that the wanted so I decided to take the leap and try one. What mattered to me was how the thing felt and responed to dynamics. That's what sold me on it.

This guy has the best Axe-FX demo vids I've found yet. He goes through all the different types of sounds the Axe-FX can deliver.

[Hellbat]

I can't watch GW videos. If I hear that dude say "Check this out." one more time I will have to hunt him down.

[gmbob22]

"high this is paul from guitar world" god i wanna kick that guy in the face, anyway since were talkin bout the asxe fx

what powered monitors are being used? brand/model?

[hippietim]

I've owned a lot of modelers - here's the ones I can remember off the top of my head:

• Behringer V-Amp 2 - this was a very good practice tool - the effects were weak but the amp sims were good enough for noodling
• Boss GS-10 - I use this all the time - it is right next to my computer - it has built-in speakers so I use it for learning songs
• Boss GT-8 - great unit except it has weak speaker sims
• Boss GT-10 - even better than the GT-10 feature-wise but still has the weak speaker sims
• Digitech GSP1101 - good effects but the amp/speaker sims are poor
• Digitech GSP2101 Artist - same as the 1101
• Fractal Audio Axe-FX Ultra - incredible - my best gigging rig ever
• Korg GNX??? - I didn't like it - it didn't last very long
• Line 6 POD 2 - good all around - mediocre speaker sims
• Line 6 POD Pro 2 - good all around but in a rack
• Line 6 PODxt Pro - nice improvement from the POD 2 all around - not much improvement in speaker sims though
• Line 6 PODx3 - basically a Vetta in a stomp box
• Line 6 Vetta II - very good
• Rocktron Chameleon - very good for it's time - holds up surprisingly well to current stuff
• Roland VG-8 - very innovative - great for everything but high gain stuff (weak speaker sims)
• Roland VG-88 - surprisingly not as as good as the VG-8 although the high gain stuff was improved
• Roland VG-99 - overall it's amazing - still weak speaker sims from Roland
• Tech 21 SansAmp - pretty good but limited - never had the rack version though

So obviously I'm an Axe-FX fan.

If you're going to go direct/FRFR the only other unit I would consider is the POD X3. I think the Roland/Boss stuff just doesn't cut it because of the weak speaker modeling - they work great if you run into a traditional speaker cab. Although, if you run the Roland/Boss stuff with speaker sims disabled into a Palmer it sounds damn good. I don't like any of the current Digitech stuff at all - I thought the GSP1101 was a terrible amp modeler.

[chrisolson]

All this modeler talk... I plugged in my Flextone II HD yesterday and wailed on it a while. I forgot how much I like these. It's really got me looking at trading some gear for an HD147 or a Vetta HD. Only problem -- I don't really have anything I want to part with right now!! I really like my Alchemist and my Single Rec, Flextone II HD is a ball, and my POD Pro will stay with me regardless. That leaves me with a flock of USA Prod Charvels, and a Jim Root tele (my only hardtail)...what's a poor guy to do?

I've been trying to talk a buddy of mine out of his Axe Fx - he told me to get in line.

[Spivonious]

I've played the Vypyrs (15, 30 and 60) and they're nice amps but they don't have the dynamic range and responsiveness of the Axe-FX.

Oh, I'm sure the Axe-FX sounds better (it should, it costs 15x as much as the Vypyr 15). I just wanted to point out that even the cheap modelers are getting pretty good at the "tube sag".

I just realized that the Vypyr and Axe-FX both use SHARC DSP processors. That might explain the similarities.