Need New Rig...Help!!!

[jk2171]

Let us know how it goes. I bet the QR surprises you out of that group. It's gotta be cranked though to sound as it is intended, but has a true effects loop bypass and solo boost which is footswitchable and KILLER.

[toxikdeth]

The Mako is out of contention due to loop and switching issues. If this was a studio amp and tone was the sole consideration, I would probably grab it, but since this needs to be the heart of a live rig, the functionality isn't going to cut it.

I'm doing a "shootout" tomorrow night in State College with:

ENGL Savage 120
ENGL Invader 100
Splawn Quickrod
Mesa/Boogie Mark V
Marshall JVM

...and I may throw the Dual Rec and Stiletto Duece into the mix as well just 'cause I can

I'm fairly confident that I prefer the Savage out of all of these choices but it never hurts to do a bit of extensive A/B-ing when able to.

The more I think about, the more the Axe-FX seems like the right choice. I already have several "cork sniffer" amps at home that cater to the tube snob in me. Having a highly portable/light weight, uber-flexible, practically maintenance free live rig is sounding like the ticket to me right now.

Hay rupe f possible you should throw a nitro in there

[Rupe]

Hay rupe f possible you should throw a nitro in there

I'd love to check one out but I don't know anybody who has one.

[toxikdeth]

I'd love to check one out but I don't know anybody who has one.

bummer

[roodyrocker]

Hey Rupe, I tried my Axe Fx Ultra with my Mesa 2:90 power amp through a Mesa 4x12 cab but then went to just the Axe Fx Ultra into a QSC HPR powered monitor cab. I thought it sounded better through the powered QSC.
I also have a Bogner Uberschall and play in a cover band doing the same bands you are. I run the gain knob at about 12:00-1:00 O'clock and it does the 80's stuff damn good. This is into a Celestion Greenback loaded Bogner cab. So you are correct, you can take brutal sounding amps and dial them in to do 80's hard rock. In your situation especially since you have other tube amps, I'd say go for the Axe Fx. I just recently picked up another QSC powered monitor for mine so I can run it in stereo

[toxikdeth]

So how did the shoot out go

[Rupe]

As I expected, the Savage won for what I was looking for...tone and versatility. Although the Invader is definitely more versatile, the Savage is still very flexible and is voiced in such a way that it simply sounds better to me. Tonally, to generalize, the Savage lies more in the hot-rodded Marshall camp whereas the Invader is a bit smoother and more refined much like a Mark Series Mesa/Boogie. Not to say the Invader can't get ugly and rude (it can!) but it seems to be more at home producing smoother, more compressed tones. Both are awesome and worth checking out.

The Savage is very dynamic as well...I could go from a good crunch on channel 2 (or even 80's style gain on channel 3) and roll back into a nice clean tone with my volume pot. The Invader had the better clean tone of the two (not by too much) but that's not why I'd buy an ENGL to begin with...its all about the dirt.

The biggest surprise was the Quickrod. I had played this same head once before and didn't really think it was anything special. I liked it MUCH more this time around. We figured out that the key to the QR is matching it up with the right guitar. Everything we threw at the ENGLs sounded good, but the QR was less accomodating...it loved my Rand but didn't sound nearly as good with a Suhr or a Jem.

Where does that leave me? Most likely with the Savage or the Axe-FX...still weighings the +/- of the two.

[toxikdeth]

As I expected, the Savage won for what I was looking for...tone and versatility. Although the Invader is definitely more versatile, the Savage is still very flexible and is voiced in such a way that it simply sounds better to me. Tonally, to generalize, the Savage lies more in the hot-rodded Marshall camp whereas the Invader is a bit smoother and more refined much like a Mark Series Mesa/Boogie. Not to say the Invader can't get ugly and rude (it can!) but it seems to be more at home producing smoother, more compressed tones. Both are awesome and worth checking out.

The Savage is very dynamic as well...I could go from a good crunch on channel 2 (or even 80's style gain on channel 3) and roll back into a nice clean tone with my volume pot. The Invader had the better clean tone of the two (not by too much) but that's not why I'd buy an ENGL to begin with...its all about the dirt.

The biggest surprise was the Quickrod. I had played this same head once before and didn't really think it was anything special. I liked it MUCH more this time around. We figured out that the key to the QR is matching it up with the right guitar. Everything we threw at the ENGLs sounded good, but the QR was less accomodating...it loved my Rand but didn't sound nearly as good with a Suhr or a Jem.

Where does that leave me? Most likely with the Savage or the Axe-FX...still weighings the +/- of the two.

Glad something worked for you the lead clips of the savage sounds nice

[hippietim]

You know my vote Bill. The problem with all of the 50+ watt tube amps is getting anything truly great out of them requires a certain volume that is unacceptably loud in too many places we play at.

I absolutely loved my SLO. On 6. An SLO on 6 is FUCKING loud. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with it on 6. It's impossible to get a good mix in a small club with your SLO on 6. And when the SLO was set at a lower volume it just didn't move me in the same way. I've had time with just about every attenuator out there and I'd rather not use them.

Swap SLO for Herbert, Quickrod, 5150 III, etc. - I've been down this path. Same thing for rack gear. I loved my 2150. But it didn't sound great until the paint was peeling off the wall. Same with the 2:90, 2:100, 2502, etc.

All of these things sound decent at reasonable volumes but they don't sound great.

[hippietim]

Since you're gigging, the biggest thing to consider is how does your rig sound in a mix?

So don't solely base your decision based on listening to an amp through a guitar cab in isolation with you just wailing away. Stick an SM57 (or whatever you mic your rig with) in front of the cab and listen to your amp through the PA. How does that sound? This is particularly important since you will most likely be close micing your a speaker to minimize bleeding of drums and such into your channel strip. You will lose a LOT of what your cabinet is contributing to your tone.

[toxikdeth]

You know my vote Bill. The problem with all of the 50+ watt tube amps is getting anything truly great out of them requires a certain volume that is unacceptably loud in too many places we play at.

I absolutely loved my SLO. On 6. An SLO on 6 is FUCKING loud. I wouldn't want to be in the same room with it on 6. It's impossible to get a good mix in a small club with your SLO on 6. And when the SLO was set at a lower volume it just didn't move me in the same way. I've had time with just about every attenuator out there and I'd rather not use them.

Swap SLO for Herbert, Quickrod, 5150 III, etc. - I've been down this path. Same thing for rack gear. I loved my 2150. But it didn't sound great until the paint was peeling off the wall. Same with the 2:90, 2:100, 2502, etc.

All of these things sound decent at reasonable volumes but they don't sound great.

Oh no its the evil preacher of the axe fx

[Ozz666]

My unexperienced opinion is the Axe-FX. I agree with these guys above...I've actually been looking into the Axe-FX myself because I'm so intrigued, but I haven't played enough over the past couple years to warrant spending the dough.
I owned an Engl Fireball for years and used it as my gigging amp when I played out. I experienced the same thing as Tim pointed out above...my Engl sounded absolutely amazing with the vol at 6-7, but at bedroom volumes I couldn't find a way to get back what I was missing. I ended up selling that amp last year and I'm down to my main rig I've had since '99 or 2000 which is basically a preamp/processor (Prophesy) through the VHT....
I may be a little biased towards the rack setups, but you can't beat the versatility. The Axe-FX does intimidate me though with the insane amount of adjustments. On my prophesy I'm one to take a factory preset I like and tweak it to get what I'm looking for.

Good luck with the choices!

- Joel

[toxikdeth]

I think you should look into a cameron ccv or ccm those things look/amazing. Of coarse the huge downside is youd have to find somebody to try it out.

[toxikdeth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djBdmo7LonA

[Rupe]

Just pulled the trigger on an Ultra...now I wait...