Reb beach bagging on hammet

[Rupe]

Someone like Vince Neil would have found Lars Ulrich and given him a sweep kick to the jaw ten years ago. End of story.

He and Nikki tried, but they couldn't catch the little weasel while wearing platform boots :ROTF:

[lerxstcat]

heh, I like Ace
specially his wide, in tune vibrato
but I think I'm in a good company with Marty Friedman, Dimebag, Richie Kotzen, Ty Tabor, Nuno Bettencourt, John Norum, Paul Gilbert and many other Space Ace fans

Well I like him too, and I thought he was pretty good in 1974. But in 2010 I am not going to try and say he is a guitar god in terms of his playing. He is a cool guy who had a cool persona, the Space Ace as you say.

My point was that some people got into both these guys as kids and they are emotionally invested in defending them as something they are not.

In fact, Kirk as the mild-mannered schlep who ain't that good, but got the opportunity to be in a world famous band? That is textbook identification for a lot of guys who are mild mannered and ain't that good, IMO. But he doesn't have the persona or personality of an Ace, more like a scared kid flinching whenever Daddy Jaymz raises his hand to smooth his Brylcream brow.

I never got the impression that Ace was askeered of Gene or Paul. He could give a fuck what they thought. Kirk spoike up ONE TIME in SKOM and they bitchslapped him by not letting him play ANY solos in St. Anger, so he skulked back into his doghouse tail between legs.

Not that I dislike Kirk as a person, I don't. I was proud oif him for showing a sack in the movie, and amazed they left it in. But they showed him who was boss, didn't they? And he took it lying down, went out and spoke the company line that made him redundant.

[Endrik]

I agree about blind-following. I mean drunk Ace sounded like shit and has had so many bad days... as did drugged out Hendrix. Metallica is a pretty big band so there's a lot of blind followers. I used to be huge Metallica fan and thought Kirk had some cool lead ideas on RTL but his vibrato always bothered me. It's something that makes or breaks a player.

[Hellbat]

The best part of this thread is the link to the Stone vid on youtube. Those guys were good!

[PowerTube]

Now that this topic has come up, I have NEVER liked Kirk's lead tone. Rhythm-wise, sure, but his lead tone sounds way too midrangey and "nasally" to me. And speaking of his "vibration," yes, it sucks. He doesn't seem to know the proper range in which to waver a note; he either doesn't waver it enough or he wavers it too much. I just generally don't like his solo construction very much, either.

For me, the masters of solo construction are/were:

Randy Rhoads
Brian May
Eddie Van Halen
Vito Bratta (White Lion)
Yngwie Malmsteen

[Grandturk]

The only Kirk tone I never liked was on AJFA - but sonically, that whole album sucks - tunes wise, its killer.

[sevser]

Now that this topic has come up, I have NEVER liked Kirk's lead tone. Rhythm-wise, sure, but his lead tone sounds way too midrangey and "nasally" to me. And speaking of his "vibration," yes, it sucks. He doesn't seem to know the proper range in which to waver a note; he either doesn't waver it enough or he wavers it too much. I just generally don't like his solo construction very much, either.

EXACTLY! And this isn't a matter of opinion. There are many right ways to bend/vibrate...and Kirk seems to miss the boat, more times than not.

I wanted to worship everything Metallica back in the 80's, but kirk was always a hard pill to swallow...especially live. James solos were always tasty and well played...Lots of feel.

Its funny, because people who defend Kirks vibrato are just showing that they too have poor pitch! Sometimes I wish I had poor pitch so I could just enjoy guys like kirk!

I doubt that Reb is all that bent about the dart thing, but even if he is...THAT and the Beavis & Butthead thing did make Winger look very un cool...

BTW...I didn't listen to Winger or stuff like that...But always enjoyed Rebs playing! And its nice to see he doesn't kiss ass...he said how he feels...good on him!

[lerxstcat]

I agree about blind-following. I mean drunk Ace sounded like shit and has had so many bad days... as did drugged out Hendrix. Metallica is a pretty big band so there's a lot of blind followers. I used to be huge Metallica fan and thought Kirk had some cool lead ideas on RTL but his vibrato always bothered me. It's something that makes or breaks a player.

Yeah, TBH Kill 'Em All did nothing for me. I thought it stunk on ice. RTL, I was kind of surprised - these guys have potential, and Kirk progressed noticeably from KEA to RTL. MOP hit and I loved that album! Kirk was still a little off but I liked a lot of his solos and thought he was starting to get somewhere.

And that was the end of his progress as a guitarist. I really think Cliff's death killed the spark in them all, and maybe Kirk the most. I am sure he feels guilty because that was supposed to be his bunk Cliff was in - but Cliff asked to swap.

And Reb, well the darts were thrown a Kip specifically in that video. KKip has been Reb's best friend for 20+ years, and Kip has been down a hard road, including his wife dying and heavy shit like that. So Reb maybe being still defensive of his good friend after all this time, doesn't surprise me. Still he put it in a pretty humorous way - as if he wasnt sure who he was? LMAO!

As for the blind thing, hey, I thought Captain Kangaroo was THE SHIT when I was 4, but I'm not saying he's the best TV actor EVAR in 2010.

[Tricky]

For me, the masters of solo construction are/were:

Randy Rhoads
Brian May
Eddie Van Halen
Vito Bratta (White Lion)
Yngwie Malmsteen

I would add Neal Schon to that list.

[Rupe]

I would add Neal Schon to that list.

Good call...and Lynch as well

[j2379]

winger was great for getting pussy & looking at tits and ass in tight spandex. musically tho its was bubble gum pop rock, pure shit if u ask me.

as for talent sure winger had it, but hell i saw Joe Satriani, i was impressed for 15 minutes spent the rest of the time outside smoking & drinking (at jones beach). soundgarden no where near the musical talent,but i didnt miss a fuckin second of that show. talent & technical ability have nothing to do with writing kickass songs, as long as you have the skills to pull it off live does it really matter.
that being said ive heard Hammett sound pretty bad live, OK very bad....but still
KILL'EM ALL how can you argue with that....

[lerxstcat]

winger was great for getting pussy & looking at tits and ass in tight spandex. musically tho its was bubble gum pop rock, pure shit if u ask me.

as for talent sure winger had it, but hell i saw Joe Satriani, i was impressed for 15 minutes spent the rest of the time outside smoking & drinking (at jones beach). soundgarden no where near the musical talent,but i didnt miss a fuckin second of that show. talent & technical ability have nothing to do with writing kickass songs, as long as you have the skills to pull it off live does it really matter.
that being said ive heard Hammett sound pretty bad live, OK very bad....but still
KILL'EM ALL how can you argue with that....

I can argue with it because I think Kill 'Em All sucks personally! I like Ride The Lightning and LOVE Master of Puppets, but see my Captain Kangaroo reference in an earlier post in regards to why I think people still defend that crap today.

That bubble-gum pop rock shit took 10x the skill to play as anything on Kill "Em All. Just takes a couple lines of meth to do that shit. Why do you think they called it speed metal before they renamed it thrash?

Winger wrote some syrupy shit but also wrote some great songs, but the anti-posers (who were just an alternate type of posers) couldn't hear the talent because they had blinders on and earplugs in. The musicians who didn't have their heads up their ass or some Neanderthal pseudo-biker mentality recognized the talent, and yeah, the songs. "Madalaine" is an awesome song! "Seventeen" has an awesome rhythm part and a killer solo. Just two examples, there are many more.

[RacerX]

RTL, - these guys have potential, and Kirk progressed noticeably from KEA to RTL. MOP hit and I loved that album! Kirk was still a little off but I liked a lot of his solos and thought he was starting to get somewhere.

And that was the end of his progress as a guitarist.

Agree ^^

Rich, maybe Kirk needs to go back & take lessons from Satriani again.

[Endrik]

But no one can teach you pitch. You either have it or don't. That's why on Bob Rock produced albums you almost never hear Kirk's vibrato as Bob just made him play those notes just ringing out and whatnot. It must have been quite a shock for Bob who just worked with John Fucking Sykes!!!

[Larz]

While KEA may not sound phenomenal to a newer generation, I was 14 when that record came out and it just blew away all the pop music that the masses listened to at the time, like U2 or The Cure, etc....it was just fast, heavy, raw, energetic, didn't have songs about chicks or falling in or out of love.......that's why a lot of people hold it in such reverence.

Sure there were a lot of similar choices at the time like Slayer, Venom, Megadeth, etc. on the underground scene and everyone has their favorite, but KEA was it for me and brings back wicked pissa memories everytime I listen to it.

Doesn't matter to me if Seek and Destroy is easier to play than Madaleine, it just crushes it as an iconic song in metal history.