Santana's Guitar Heaven

[markD]

I can honestly say I never in my life expected to hear a cover of Back in Black with the lyrics "Yah!, Uh!, Uh huh!, Cmon ya'll back in black UH!

no shit. i HATE AC/DC and i felt violated by hearing that abortion of a track....ugh....

[atomic charvel guy]

i have no interest whatsoever in hearing this album, or el headacheo rob thomas and
whatever other "stars" may be on the album as well rehashing stuff, but.............

there is no denying that carlos santana was a badass motherfukker in his day.
truly soulful playing, if you can't enjoy samba pa ti and countless other tunes
by santana then , well, i guess he's just not for you then. his band was comprised of
some serious musicians, i saw them live twice, and they delivered.
i love his playing of old.

[Mazrim]

His band were absolutely awesome and the only reason I'll listen to those early records. Its just a shame he plays on them.
Come on man, all this time and he cant even bend a string to pitch. Its like listening to a tone deaf cat dying in agony in an uncarpeted hallway.

[Rupe]

Its like listening to a tone deaf cat dying in agony in an uncarpeted hallway.

Be careful who you insult...a lot of these young cats are going for that tone these days

[Endrik]

Carlos is a hit or miss, not always out of tune. Tony Iommi, Frank Zapa or Randy Rhoads sometimes had intonation going out of pitch, sometimes pretty badly. Robert Plant wasn't always on pitch. Alice In Chains has drums going from behind the beat to ahead of the beat in the same part. I'd say Carlos is more on the pitch than Kirk Hammett and KK. Downing from Judas Priest who doesn't know what pitch is. Younger Carlos Cavazo was pretty shitty too. Dave Murray is sometimes out of pitch, Janick is a lot of times, Adrian is probably never. George Lynch can play some of the shittiest sounding crap but he's never out of tune, always top notch vibrato and bends. So you can buy a ticket and probably see a hour and half of pointless crap and 5 minutes worth of best vibrato there is. EVH can be at times very sloppy but has great pitch unless he his totally shitfaced, then he's out of tune too. John McLaughlin was out of tune too when he first started playing electric guitar, more than Santana, still smokes all you bitches right here. Kim Thayil makes Hammett or Downing sound good. Allan Holdsworth specifically goes for a vibrato bended out of the pitch, but sounds good because he knows what the fuck he is doing. Steve Howe in Asia's "Heat of the Moment" is badly out of tune. Neal Schon on Yourney's songs is on tune but I don't give a fuck because those are some shitty fucking songs. Hendrix recordings made on Acid were out of tune. C.C. Deville is badly out of tune.

[Musician78]

I'm not a Santana fan by any means... but regardless of when he started, he still might have made it.. look at Nickelback. They produced the same cd at least 6 times, and they make more money in one year than the entire forum will make in a lifetime. And they SUCK.

[shreddermon]

My desire to hear Santana is hit or miss. I generally love and respect his s**t. Loved most of Supernatural (there's some solid songwriting and melodies on there), as well as his older stuff. But there is something about his playing that eventually grates on me over time, so I have to take him in smaller doses.

Supposedly, the head of his record label suggested he do an album of covers, with guest singers again. He wasn't into it at first, but eventualy bought into the concept. (cough...sold out...cough) When I heard he did Back in Black with a rapper on it, I lost any desire to hear this latest album.

[Endrik]

But Guitar Heaven is good compared to Kenny G soloing with his lame ass lines and pussy ass tone over a Louis Armstrong record.

[nateb]

Dave Murray is sometimes out of pitch

Blasphemy! Everyone else is out of pitch... Dave is fine.



-Nate

[VitaminG]

Blasphemy! Everyone else is out of pitch... Dave is fine.



-Nate

not a pitch issue, but one of my favourite moments on Live After Death, something I always listen out for, is Dave's glorious clanged open note during a solo (can't remember if it's Two Minutes or Flight of Icarus).

[surfreak]

Carlos is a hit or miss, not always out of tune. Tony Iommi, Frank Zapa or Randy Rhoads sometimes had intonation going out of pitch, sometimes pretty badly. Robert Plant wasn't always on pitch. Alice In Chains has drums going from behind the beat to ahead of the beat in the same part. I'd say Carlos is more on the pitch than Kirk Hammett and KK. Downing from Judas Priest who doesn't know what pitch is. Younger Carlos Cavazo was pretty shitty too. Dave Murray is sometimes out of pitch, Janick is a lot of times, Adrian is probably never. George Lynch can play some of the shittiest sounding crap but he's never out of tune, always top notch vibrato and bends. So you can buy a ticket and probably see a hour and half of pointless crap and 5 minutes worth of best vibrato there is. EVH can be at times very sloppy but has great pitch unless he his totally shitfaced, then he's out of tune too. John McLaughlin was out of tune too when he first started playing electric guitar, more than Santana, still smokes all you bitches right here. Kim Thayil makes Hammett or Downing sound good. Allan Holdsworth specifically goes for a vibrato bended out of the pitch, but sounds good because he knows what the fuck he is doing. Steve Howe in Asia's "Heat of the Moment" is badly out of tune. Neal Schon on Yourney's songs is on tune but I don't give a fuck because those are some shitty fucking songs. Hendrix recordings made on Acid were out of tune. C.C. Deville is badly out of tune.

I am out of tune.

[jgcable]

The cool thing about Carlos Santana is that the normal lead guitar player schmoe could blow his doors in every which way including Sunday yet if you shared the stage with him and literally roasted him alive the crowd would still come away from the concert saying that Santana is a guitar god. He has an incredible body of work and the most incredible thing about that incredible body of work is that almost every single guitar solo or lick is exactly the same. He even plays the same notes and bends out of tune with incredible consistancy. I especially like the single string double picking "scales" he incorporates into most of his solos. They usually in the neck pickup position, they start with a slighly out of tune bend, they are sloppily double picked up the frets and they end in another out of tune bend or a single string slide.

[jgcable]

Aldo Nova has a more precise lead style!!
There I said it.

[Grandturk]

I especially like the single string double picking "scales" he incorporates into most of his solos. They usually in the neck pickup position, they start with a slighly out of tune bend, they are sloppily double picked up the frets and they end in another out of tune bend or a single string slide.

Thanks for the lesson! I'm going to start working on this technique tonight!

[pro-fusion]

Yeah, this dumb album was the brainchild of Clive Davis at Arista, not Santana. It was a terrible idea, and I'm sorry Carlos went along with it. He used to have a lot more integrity than that. But selling millions of pop albums (and going through an undoubtedly expensive divorce) will do things to people.

As for the folks who think Santana sucks, do yourself a favor and go buy the albums Caravanserai and Lotus. In the early '70s, after his early "hit" albums, Carlos was hanging around a lot of serious jazz guys and developing his playing. He's never been a huge technician, but his playing on his early '70s fusion albums was very much to the point and clearly influenced by Miles and Coltrane. He had an incredible amount of soul in his playing and a knack for really good note choices and placement.

I agree that Carlos has mostly been coasting since the late '70s, though, and his playing has fallen off sharply ever since about the mid-'90s.