Was/Is Randy Rhoads overrated???!!!

[khabibissell]

Like I said, I'm still a huge Rhoads fan, BUT listening to some of those early works a little more intently showed alot of similarities with Randy's work with Ozzy, especially in Randy as a soloist.

Again, I'm not really knocking Randy... I was just always of the opinion that melodic, neo-classical playing was Randy's "invention"... I'm finding out that it was not really the case. I'm truly shocked... I guess I was just uninformed. There were guys doing similar stuff earlier, they just didn't get the notoriety Randy had, thus not receiving the credit. One thing I will say is that Randy brought a little bit of the Van Halen angle into it, making the music a bit more "modern" sounding.

I still love Randy's work and he will continue to be an inspiration, just as he's always been past.

[lerxstcat]

Randy was innovative; just because he wasn't the FIRST player to incorporate classical influence in hard rock doesn't mean he wasn't way ahead of the curve in his time! It seems to me he was a young player who absorbed aspects of these other greats like a sponge; as he said in his last interview, he was just really finding his own style. He soaked up some of the EVH style of course; Ed was the biggest thing in guitar at the time, especially if you were in L.A. The fact he resisted becoming a complete Ed clone like a lot of other excellent players is a testament that he was trying to synthesize elements of all the greats of his day into his unique style.

Nobody comes up with this stuff in a vacuum. Yngwie tried to CLAIM that HE did, but enough people knew Uli's work to put the lie to Yngwie's story. Of course he acknowledged Blackmore - he couldn't deny THAT - but he didn't mention Uli until years later when he did his horrible cover of Sails of Charon. Randy was a lot more forthright in not acting like he'd invented the elements of his style. However, the legend that he grew into after his death gave him sole credit for every lick he played.

Randy's only overrated in the sense that people think no one is as good as he is. There were a number of players as good as or even better than Randy even then. Most of them were relatively unknown compared to him though.

[skorb]

That being said, there was aother comment that I did disagree with.
Schenker has GREAT songs, both in UFO and MSG.

+1

[PallarAndersVisa]

randy rhoads sucks

[PallarAndersVisa]

juuuuuuuuuuust kidding

[Myxolidian]

Overrated? Depends in what context.

RR might not have introduced neo-classical to rock but the way he used it in his songs with Ozzy were, to me, absolutely amazing. The music and his solos still send chills down my spine. None of his peers do that to me, even though some might be technically superior. So to me, RR is the pinnacle. For others, it's Hendrix or SRV or Beck or Clapton...etc.

I will say that I think Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake contributed A LOT to the vibe of the albums. Daisley had very unique bass lines and Kerslake did some great drumming.

Funny, but I find this to be the case with all of Ozzy's guitar players. RR with Quiet Riot was pretty awful. But also remember how young he was. He was still developing his style, so to speak. Jake was cool with Ozzy but I hated Badlands. Zakk is OK with Ozzy but BLS is just horrible.

[St.James]

My first thought when I saw the title of this thread is, "are you fucking crazy?!", but I think's it's all a matter of opinion and point of view.

My opinion is Randy's music is timeless. Not the least bit overrated. I love it as much today as I did when I first heard it many moons ago.

Now as far as overrated goes, I can think of a few other names that definitely fits that description... In my opinion.

[horns666]

All great points and bold enough to mention IMO!!

I already had my fill of great players by the time Randy came into the spotlight,and at that very time was introduced to many other unknown players by Mike Varney "Unsung heroes"..like Derek Frigo (VH school) , Shawn Lane and etc..that eventually moved on to make a name in their own right.

Randy used to say that during his solos he pretened to be EVH..I read that many times..I'm sure you read the same thing.

Gary Moore just mentioned in interview that he was inteneded to be the original Ozzy player but declined to do his G force on Jet records and found Randy for Ozzy..then elaborated that RR ripped off Moore's solos for Mr Crowley and such..he says it's the passages that HE wrote for some of his songs..I've yet heard THESE references..and I do have G force ..Dirty Fingers and so on..

I had a RR solo album..called "Load Up"..it was unreleased demo stuff..there was disco type tunes on it like the title track..the album was crap basically..NOTHING redeeming about it..only valuable if you were a huge RR fan which ..at that time I was...still am..but he did have his own voice..

Nowadays Its VERY..or much TOO easy to have your favorite players/bands shape and inspire your own style..I sounded like VH for a while..took me some time to shake that..but if ALL you listen to is VH..chances are that is going to bleed thru..My VH tribute guitarist Can NOT write an original song without it sounding like clasic VH...which is a "tired" formula now..since so many others did that or tried to 20 years ago..Steve Blaze, Steve Lynch, Vitto Bratta, Steve Vai, Satch, Dimebag etc...ALL from the VH school...but yet each with their own voice.

I don't "cover" music in effort to avoid this..I let it inspire me..and I am guilty of lifting a riff here and there and making it my own..I should pay Jeff Loomis royalties if my music ever does go anywhere..prolly not...wink

Some may think RR is "overrated"..but he was still Randy Rhoads, inspired by the great players of his time, but with his own voice...bottomline there is only ONE Randy Rhoads..just like there was only ONE Dime and ONE Criss Oliva..all from the VH school....but yet ALL different.

where are those smileys....scratch.

[toejam]

Randy was great; though, his tone kinda sucked!

[fuel0707]

While I would bet that part of his mystique is that his life was so tragically cut short, the fact of the matter is we are still talking about him to this day and guitar magazines to continue to write major articles on him and transcribe his playing. I think that speaks to his impact, whether he was a true innovator or an amalgam (Eric Johnson's favorite term) of several influences.

I think it would be cool to have a DVD collection of live and studio footage of Randy. I have a VHS boot of "After Hours" and a few things but it sure we be nice to have a professionally-done DVD of Randy's playing.

[horns666]

I'd buy it!

Yep, Randy Jimi are immortal..we'll always be talking about Them!!

I will always miss Criss Oliva and Dime..

Ed is already immortal..his death will just confirm that status.

[tseegert]

All we know is all we have.
He died at very young age, never had the opportunity to peak or test more of the waters of innovation. So, with what we have he was without a doubt an outstanding writer and player. He influenced alot of players thats for certain too.

With Ed, we have more to make an evaluation.
We have something like 11 or 12 VH albums vs Randy's 4 albums (2 with QR and 2 with Ozzy).

The 80's were a great time, you actually had to know how to play your instrument well. Thus, forcing the boundaries of playing and pushing the envolope of song writing. Its from the 80's that alot of these young guns today are drawing the knowledge base from to better themselves as guitarists.

I agree with you there. To say he was the greatest might be a slight overstatement, but that doesnt mean he couldnt have been eventually. It really is sad that someone with his potential never got the chance to realize it. Same goes for a good number of musicians.

[sully]

I sounded like VH for a while..took me some time to shake that..but if ALL you listen to is VH..chances are that is going to bleed thru..My VH tribute guitarist Can NOT write an original song without it sounding like clasic VH

holy crap, can i ever relate to that. when i was in the kiss trib band and gigging regularly, it would take weeks for me to be able to play anything that didn't instantly sound like ace frehley. i remember visiting curt's house a few years ago and hanging out in the jam room and i couldn't de-ace myself. it was kinda funny, but also a little irritating. curt thought it was hilarious.

anyway, i just wanted to touch on that and the statement about randy's playing not being different between the QR to ozzy years. i think that there was a lot of growth in those years and the records show it. yeah, the QR records were rough and in some cases, god awful. but the guitar work was always good. while you can certainly hear QR song fragments show up in later ozzy songs, and yeah, there's lots of little lead bits and pieces that were later used as well. i think his biggest area of growth was his songwriting. i would say that he had a writing team that he may have clicked with a little better (even though i bet that randy would disagree), or it could be that his musical growth wanted to move to something a little less poppy.

also keep in mind that diary is an unfinished album; listen to the first solo in mr crowley and compare it to the solo in believer (studio version). the first few passages are identical. you hear him play different leads in the live version; perhaps because he was still kinda working the solo out. there's a few other songs on there that are scratch track solos (little dolls), too. i think that if they would have had the time to spend in the studio, the diary album would be a stronger overall effort. i'm not saying it's a weak album by any stretch, but you can kinda get a feeling that some of it is unfinished.

i'm not very familiar with schenker's ufo stuff (i listened to his solo stuff) and i never listened to deep purple or uli-era scorpions, so i can't comment on it too much. that said, i will say that the solo in SATO has always had a michael schenker feel to it to my ears.

do i think randy is overrated? nah, not really. what drives me nuts the most about randy's legacy are the koolaid drinkers who think that the angelic image is 100% legit and that he was some kinda yoda-like guitar jedi master. anyway, back to the overrated thing; in my eyes it's kinda like the tapping thing. ed didn't invent it and there's plenty of documented proof. however, he brought it to the forefront. randy may have been the one who got the classical credit. there's merit to it, sure, but then again it's also not something i'd give a whole ton of thought to.

sully

[markb]

I found more similarity between QR and Blizzard playing. I find on Diary of a Madman he was starting to really take off on his own for style. The solos in I Dont Know and some others are a bit schenkerish. I dont hear any blackmore in randy. But as for innovative...maybe there is a distinction between innovative and stylistically distinct. I think the playing on Diary is unique, style wise. What other player would have come up with anything like Over the Mountain? Or Flying High Again? But Innovative? I'm not sure I ever recall Randy being known as an "innovator".

Ed was an innovator, Michael Hedges was an innovator, the My Bloody Valentine guy is an innovator etc. Not Randy.

Randy was known more as just a really hot player, well above average at the time in technique, vocabulary, dramatic playing, etc. This is 1980 - 82 we're talking about here. He really stood out back then. Dying young also pushed his star higher. So overrated? No I dont think so, he was someone who raised the bar quite high for those who came after him. We all play the way we do partly because of him, directly or indirectly, that is a significant player that you would say that about.

[quakana]

Aside from guitar playing and technique and where he got his technique or whatever...the stuff he wrote with Oz was timeless and just plain old fit the rest of the band he was playing with (chemistry). Those tunes will be etched in my mind till the day I die, and I think alot of you would agree...and that says something. Obviuosly we are all critics of guitar players...but what about the song and what you were doing when you first heard it?? Or what it reminds you of when you hear it. Or how many times you played the album over and over again..Why be so critical of the guitar technique?
Take it/him for what its worth and not for what its lacking