When Endorsee's jump ship...

[Metalcop]

This irritates me way more than when an artist leaves one brand for another. OK, I understand that artists change 'preferred' brands and endorse a different guitar company, that is the natural course of things. But when they try and take 'their' signature guitar with them, it is really quite lame (read: Dave Mustaine). So he leaves Jackson, no problem, leave the King/Y2K V's with Jackson, where they belong. Don't just have ESP build you a nearly identical guitar and stick their logo on it. This would have been like when DM came over to Jackson, having them build him Bich's and throwing a Jackson logo on them, get my point? ESP is by far the worst offender of this, it's like they can't come up with an original guitar design. Both Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman did the same thing, lets just have ESP make us copies of our Jackson and BC Rich guitars, thanks for the paycheck.
Vinny Vincent was by far the worst offender of this. Jackson built and designed a double V, to his specs, then he has Carvin build him a duplicate guitar. Then, to add insult to injury, he has Washburn build him the same guitar.
This isn't a rant about endorsee's leaving Jackson or any other company, just taking the collaborative effort guitar along with them. I think I'm going to shell out the $5,000 and have ESP custom build me a Rhoads... [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[nor]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

It's all about DOUGH, bro. There are a hundred companies that can build you what you want, but only a half-dozen that will PAY YOU to play it.

The only ones who make 'Rock Star' money are the ones who write the lyrics and are savvy enough to retain publishing/mechanicals.

Everyone else (guitarists, drummers, bassists) has to scare up jack to make ends meet - even when their band hits big. That's why you don't see many 'Learn Metal Vocals IV' tapes - dude's already getting paid/laid.

So don't let it bug ya.
[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Hamner1]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

I agree with metalcop.
[img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] Plus I would like to know why Jackson was refrained from continuing production of the Y2K V. I mean they could have renamed it, took off the signature, & even could have put the SLS style headstock on it. Because Dave's ESP model doesn't even look like a Y2K V, it looks like a string-thru King V with an ESP headstock and a pickguard. Why a pickguard? It doesn't make sense that ESP can copy a Jackson design, but Jackson can not keep producing a model they initially designed and produced. [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[illumina]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

If i remember correctly, Gibson told Jackson to cease production on the Y2KV because it looked eerily similar to a Gibson V. Since Jackson was smaller at the time it was introduced, Gibson didn't mind a few being produced. However, when Fender came into the picture, there was no way Gibson would let a Fender owned company produce a guitar that looks like a Gibson trademark. This is also why ESP stopped producing the old explorers, and now have a weirder 'sharper' look on their new ones.

Correct me if im wrong.

~eric

[lerxstcat]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Originally posted by BigDaddyD:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there was no way Gibson would let a Fender owned company produce a guitar that looks like a Gibson trademark.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fender makes quite a few guitars that are obvious attempts at Gibson designs. They are just not exact.

this comes to mind

http://www.fender.com/misc/summernam...7700578_md.jpg </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, that's really a DeArmond by Guild that Fender relogoed after buying the license to make Guild guitars, though you're correct about the general look there.

That leads me to the point that the King V, besides its headstock, inlays and pointier horns, is enough like the original Flying V that you could
argue it's as fair for Dave and ESP to copy that as it was for Jackson to make the King V in the first place,
from Gibson's point of view.

There are much more important things to be pissed about in this world than
Dave having ESP replicate a KV for him. Just vote with your wallet as you'd do anyway, by not buying one.

[ July 22, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: lerxstcat ]

[lerxstcat]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Oh, and don't forget, Gibson's made a few
Strats and Superstrats in its day too.
They try to get in on each other's markets; that's capitalism.

[BigDaddyD]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Yep that is true look at the Gibson Firebird and Reverse firebird

[jgcable]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

If DAve needs the money why not take endorsement deals! Its not like he is making a ton of money selling records or touring. The guy has to make a living somehow. I think you should cut him some slack. Most famous players tend to jump ship when their careers take a dive anyway. The serious endorsement deal to get is a Fender deal! They have signature guitars from current ALIVE and WELL players who haven't had a successful tour or record in the last 15 years easy. It seems that once you get a Fender deal you have it for life.

[ChickenScratch]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

I agree with everything that's been said before. However when EVH jumped ship from Ernie Ball to Peavey for whatever reason it was one of the few times I had no problem with essentially the same guitar being produced by the same company.

Don't know why, I never usually go for bolt on guitars but both guitars are just monsters and really solid. If the model works then stick with it right?

This may be the reason guitarists have the same guitar be made by different companies. They are comfortable with the model and it's identified with them, heaven forbid the day Zakk leaves Gibson you know he's gonna show up with some company like Dean or Heritage with basically the same guitar and same paintjob.

[Riffmeister]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

My question is , Why is it ok for ESP or Washburn or whoever to make a copy of a Jackson Design, but Charvel\Jackson couoldn't use some stupid Fender headstock?

[Swillmaster]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Originally posted by jgcable:
The serious endorsement deal to get is a Fender deal! They have signature guitars from current ALIVE and WELL players who haven't had a successful tour or record in the last 15 years easy. It seems that once you get a Fender deal you have it for life.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yngwie Malmsteen is a perfect example of this. I look at it as a wise decision, since they pick great players. (rather than the flavor of week) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

My question is , Why is it ok for ESP or Washburn or whoever to make a copy of a Jackson Design, but Charvel\Jackson couoldn't use some stupid Fender headstock?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe they pay a license fee for the body style? Hope so. Jackson won't pay the Fender license fee (and I don't blame them).

And Jackson's Flying V (Y2K) and Firebird Pro bodies were slightly different from Gibson's and thus fit through a loophole (as Kevin Easton called it). A few months before the buyout, KE mentioned something about Jackson being able to use that loophole to make Explorers.

Newc

[ July 22, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Newc ]

[Black Mariah]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Headstocks can be trademarked, body styles can not. This is how I unerstand it. Bodies aren't seen as being an identifiable part of the guitar, while the headstock is the main identifier.

[Accept2]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

Actually body styles can be trademarked and patented, but they have to be totally unusual, and not similar to anything that other companies produce anyway. The only body style I know that is patented, and trademarked is the Blade Runner body style developed by David Andrews Guitar Reasearch. Schecter once tried to copy it, and lets just say the confrontation wasnt very pretty...........
As for artists, they should be able to do what ever the hell they please, this is a free country. Dont like it? Create a new USSR........

[slayer]

Re: When Endorsee\'s jump ship...

I could have sworn that McD told me that Jackson will not make anymore Explorer shaped Jacksons, to avoid a conflict with Gibson? If so, that would be a ashame, that would be my first one I would choose for a 1 Humbucker Short Scale Jackson, I love the Explorer shape, but not the Gibson quality. I have Hamer USA Standard also and they are 24.75 scale, but not as Metal looking as Jackson, but Hamers are very high quality like Jackson. If anybody can confirm if Jackson will do an Explorer Shredder, please let me know, so I know if I can order 1 or not? Thanks-Jack.