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**Steve** · 11-10-2003, 01:50 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by charvelguy:
yep, they do rip. Kinda the 21st century equivalent to Judas Priest's KK Downing and Glenn Tipton. So if you weren't a fan of Priest at some point in time.. you probably won't dig this.

did ya just download some ? download "the sin trade" or "I spit on your grave" those to tunes are my all time faves , I like those 2 better than all the cob catalog together //Steve

**Black Mariah** · 11-10-2003, 02:27 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

So, because you have to order the guitar from the custom shop (which is, as you may or may not remember, Jackson's mainstay) the shape has been neglected? [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

If you want to see more stars, get more people buying them. It's as simple as that. They were custom shop back in the day, and they still are. Not every shape is popular enough to warrant a production model, and stars have never sold as well as most of the other shapes. When the freaking WARRIOR is less ugly... [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Don't get me wrong, I love stars, but it's only the fault of the people that don't want to spend custom shop dollars (which is STILL less than the cost of an ESP) that you don't see more of them.

Also, Greg, if you're going to whine like a baby at every chance you get about how much AMIC sucked and Fender sucks, at least get your math right.

**RacerX** · 11-10-2003, 02:47 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Man, I gotta break out the popcorn again! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**StuTDavis** · 11-10-2003, 03:16 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Greg,

Hehehe, maybe I do live under a rock. I dunno, but the thing is, I absolutely can't stand any band that doesn't have a singer I like. Most of the "metal" bands these days have a growler, instead of a singer. I don't like growlers, not in any form. And, unfortunately, though I know that I would and do like the actual music in these bands, I can't listen to the songs for long enough to appreciate it, becuase the singers absolutely ruin it for me. The other thing is the lyrics and subject matter themselves...I'm just really picky on songs, and the song has to mean something to me, or at least give me a reason to want to sing along, for me to really enjoy it. But I just haven't heard it out there, in what I've come across.

Honestly, I'd LOVE to find new bands that I actually like, and I've listened to a LOT of stuff...all sorts of stuff on the DirecTV Metal station, the new Headbangers' Ball (which I just quit watching, because I didn't like anything they play) etc...but I just don't hear much of anything out there that I can tolerate. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Stu

**StuTDavis** · 11-10-2003, 03:28 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Steve,

I wasn't mentioning those bands becuase I particularly love them, or think they should be on the Jackson list. I mentioned those bands because they are hugely famous bands that are very outstanding in the public eye. I was saying, if bands with those bands' status were with Jackson, and they left, THEN I'd see a reason to worry about Fender letting them go without a strong attempt to keep them. I dunno, maybe the band that Roope is in is a multi million dollar, platinum selling band, doing huge tours all over the world, releasing DVD videos every year, and tons of high profile music videos on MTV I've never seen, I really don't know. THAT's the kind of band that people need to worry about Jackson losing. Like I said, I don't know for sure, but I've got a slight gut feeling that Roope's band doesn't have that kind of mega-star status. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've got no problem with being corrected.

In comparison, like take a look back to bands like Megadeth and Anthrax being on the Jackson bill back in the 80s. They were pretty big bands back there, doing relatively very well in their genre, playing huge gigs. If Megadeth left Jackson for ESP back then, THAT would be something to worry about, and could possibly be considered a HUGE mistake on Jackson's part. But, Mustaine now leaving Jackson for ESP? Who cares? He's not what he was back then, and he's not going to sell as many guitars as he could have, because he's just not huge in the public eye anymore. In the same sense, if Korn were a Jackson playing band, and they left for another company, that could be considered a big blow to Jackson. If they were a relatively unknown band, only in the spotlight of a slight few, selling only tens of thousands of copies of their album...what would it really matter if they left?

In the end, I always just think it's funny when everybody goes so bonkers over so-and-so leaving the Jackson realm, so to speak. How many of your paychecks depend on these people being linked with Jackson? And do you honestly think that Jackson will go down the tubes if these people play other guitars? We keep getting this "so-and-so left Jackson, oh my god the sky is falling!" threads over and over, and I've gotta say, I think it's just plain silly to go so bazooka over something like this hehehe. Eh, I see something funny or silly, and I comment on it, that's all. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Stu

**VitaminG** · 11-10-2003, 03:41 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by StuTDavis:
I absolutely can't stand any band that doesn't have a singer I like. Most of the "metal" bands these days have a growler, instead of a singer. I don't like growlers, not in any form. And, unfortunately, though I know that I would and do like the actual music in these bands, I can't listen to the songs for long enough to appreciate it, becuase the singers absolutely ruin it for me.

Have you checked out Sinergy yet, Stu? It sounds like they could be just the sort of thing you want. Fantastic guitar from Alexi & Roope, and Kim sings clean. No growling at all.

If people are recommending Sinergy tunes, I'll throw in a couple. Gallowmere & Midnight Madness. Not a bad video for MM either. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

**Steve** · 11-10-2003, 11:56 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by StuTDavis:
Steve,

I wasn't mentioning those bands becuase I particularly love them, or think they should be on the Jackson list. I mentioned those bands because they are hugely famous bands that are very outstanding in the public eye. I was saying, if bands with those bands' status were with Jackson, and they left, THEN I'd see a reason to worry about Fender letting them go without a strong attempt to keep them. I dunno, maybe the band that Roope is in is a multi million dollar, platinum selling band, doing huge tours all over the world, releasing DVD videos every year, and tons of high profile music videos on MTV I've never seen, I really don't know. THAT's the kind of band that people need to worry about Jackson losing. Like I said, I don't know for sure, but I've got a slight gut feeling that Roope's band doesn't have that kind of mega-star status. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've got no problem with being corrected.

In comparison, like take a look back to bands like Megadeth and Anthrax being on the Jackson bill back in the 80s. They were pretty big bands back there, doing relatively very well in their genre, playing huge gigs. If Megadeth left Jackson for ESP back then, THAT would be something to worry about, and could possibly be considered a HUGE mistake on Jackson's part. But, Mustaine now leaving Jackson for ESP? Who cares? He's not what he was back then, and he's not going to sell as many guitars as he could have, because he's just not huge in the public eye anymore. In the same sense, if Korn were a Jackson playing band, and they left for another company, that could be considered a big blow to Jackson. If they were a relatively unknown band, only in the spotlight of a slight few, selling only tens of thousands of copies of their album...what would it really matter if they left?

In the end, I always just think it's funny when everybody goes so bonkers over so-and-so leaving the Jackson realm, so to speak. How many of your paychecks depend on these people being linked with Jackson? And do you honestly think that Jackson will go down the tubes if these people play other guitars? We keep getting this "so-and-so left Jackson, oh my god the sky is falling!" threads over and over, and I've gotta say, I think it's just plain silly to go so bazooka over something like this hehehe. Eh, I see something funny or silly, and I comment on it, that's all. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Stu

give it ten or five years when every metal band out there is playing esp through endorsment man and then you'll see the state of jackson guitars if no one is playing em the sales drop there is no advertising every music store and there dog will want to carry esp and just like kramer and dean good by for awhile or till some rich dude whos a fanatic [I say Greg Crowe lol] buys the company for pennies and then it's not even close to what it even was and I don't want to see it [well if it was in Gregs hands or Sully's I would be happy about that ! ] get that far but its on it's way ! expecaily in the A&R dept and I do know this 1 st hand as well [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] and all the artists who are now with esp had the same problems , but they did finally give Lamb Of God a deal and some new guitars ! but I wouldn't put my hope in the company on them ! anyway check Sinergy out they are pretty good ....... also on that growling comment in your other post it does take talent to do it if you can do it properly ! my vocal style is like that and I sing highs and lows just like any clean singer does ! just try it sometime and do it good , not just grr like some of the cookie monster bands , I don't sing mono tone man , it's just as hard as anything else man ! //Steve

**Greg Crowe** · 11-10-2003, 11:56 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by Black Mariah:
Also, Greg, if you're going to whine like a baby at every chance you get about how much AMIC sucked and Fender sucks, at least get your math right.

Why don't you correct me then little boy? I said the Star shape was neglected by Charvel/Jackson for over 15 years by AMIC and Fender since the Star basically was a common model thru 1985 as a bolt-on Charvel. Sure they were all "customs" but San Dimas kept spitting them out. After 1985, the shape was basically neglected.

You make no sense whatsoever saying that people need to pony up stupid money for custom shop guitars to get the shape back in production.

Also, I think AMIC did a pretty damn good job running Jackson despite the multiple a-hole moves by DFW.

[ November 10, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Greg Crowe ]

**Rhoadsfan67** · 11-10-2003, 11:56 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Greg: Amen, brother! European metal sh!ts all over most American metal bands (except for Iced Earth, Symphony X, Jag Panzer and a few others...)!

Stu: Welcome to the world of mass media, where they live to tell you what you should watch and/or listen to. I stay as far away from major labels, radio and MTV as possible. They are all greedy, money-grubbing scum, and all they do is preach their propaganda to the masses as fast as they mindlessly suck it up and believe all they are fed. Its 99.999% trendy bullsh!t and gimmicks; they wouldn't know a talented band if they hit them in the face. It's all about finding cool bands on your own. Check out the internet for 100's of so called "underground" metal bands. Go to power metal websites and check out soundclips. Try the metal online radio stations like Hardradio, Metal Express, Brave Radio and Live 365.... You will soon discover that there are more great bands that are not getting exposure than you can possibly keep up with. Bill and I try to keep up with them all, but it's a losing battle! haha

**Greg Crowe** · 11-10-2003, 11:58 AM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

........double post

[ November 10, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Greg Crowe ]

**Steve** · 11-10-2003, 12:01 PM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

oh and by the way they do tour the world they are doing it right now with dimmu borgir ! and then they do these huge europe and Japan dates they have done more touring in the last 2 years than dave mustaine has done in the last 4 years ! and thats a fact ! //Steve

**StuTDavis** · 11-10-2003, 02:33 PM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Hehehe coolies...hey, I'm totally up on listening to new stuff, it's just hard when, like some of you have pointed out, hardly none of these bands get huge coverage. At that point, I'm stuck wading through a huge sea looking for most likely the rare fish. My options for looking for new music are pretty limited. I don't download music on the file-swapping things, I don't have high-speed internet, I don't have any money to risk on something I'm not 100% sure about, and I don't have any situation where I sit for huge amounts of time listening to any kind of radio. So, I'm stuck to whatever I hear on the DirecTV metal station here and there, any free clips on bands' websites, and the tiny clips I could hear on a site like CDNOW.

Thanks for the tip on Sinergy, though, I will look up what I can on them when I'm at the computer for a good while, sometime soon. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Stu

**charvelguy** · 11-10-2003, 03:12 PM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by Steve:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by charvelguy:
yep, they do rip. Kinda the 21st century equivalent to Judas Priest's KK Downing and Glenn Tipton. So if you weren't a fan of Priest at some point in time.. you probably won't dig this.

did ya just download some ? download "the sin trade" or "I spit on your grave" those to tunes are my all time faves , I like those 2 better than all the cob catalog together //Steve <hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the suggestions.

I asked Sully about a clip that showcased the Roope/Alexi solo exchange when the contest was over for the guessing game on the Jackson Dx10.

I was impressed enough to check out more of the metal bands discussed and their tunes. I like At Vance's version of the classical stuff. It's kinda refreshing to hear a primarily metal band cover Abba and such. Their new singer was a good choice.

I, like Stu, do not care for more of the growler vocals of some metal bands. But I can stomach some of it for a time. I downloaded some Nevermore too..it's ok. It strikes me as rather comical at times, but at least they're dynamically diverse and mix it up in the structure.

[ November 10, 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: charvelguy ]

**VitaminG** · 11-10-2003, 09:44 PM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Originally posted by Steve:
on that growling comment in your other post it does take talent to do it if you can do it properly ! my vocal style is like that and I sing highs and lows just like any clean singer does ! just try it sometime and do it good , not just grr like some of the cookie monster bands , I don't sing mono tone man , it's just as hard as anything else man ! //Steve

Moot point. It wasn't about the ability of the singers, but a dislike of the style. There are some seriously incredible musicians playing bluegrass, don't mean I got to like it. I can appreciate the years of practice and hard work that goes into any musician honing their craft, that doesn't mean that I am required to enjoy the music they make. A lot of people on this forum would agree that there are some smokin' players in country music, but not many here are fans of that style.

I could never get into Ratt for years, not because they weren't a good band (I love everything about Warren's playing) but I just couldn't stand Pearcy's voice. Now, I find I'm better able to tolerate (filter out/ignore) his half-octave whine and just enjoy what the rest of the band has to offer.

I'm with Stu on the grrrowlers. I love Alexi's playing and am fortunate that Sinergy provides forum more suited to my listening tastes, where I can also enjoy Roope's playing AND Kim's vocals. I've tried to listen to COB, and as much as I enjoy the guitarwork, I just can't stand Alexi's voice.

[ November 10, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: VitaminG ]

**StuTDavis** · 11-10-2003, 09:51 PM

Re: Roope Latvala goes ESP...

Steve,

I forgot earlier that I wanted to write regarding what you said about the "growling". I hope you didn't take anything I said as insulting towards that sort of vocal style, or insulting personally. I'm a goofy guy that likes to joke around a lot, but humility and respect are high virtues on my list, and I would hope to never insult someone's integrity as an artist.

I try my best never to comment on how much "talent" I believe is required or shown in music. Being a near-completely talentless schmuck myself, I could hardly make a valid comment on someone else's ability hehehe. Looking back at the history of the music we ALL listen to on this forum, it would be EXTREMELY hypocritical for ANY of us to comment on the amount of "talent" required to produce ANY kind of artistry, taking into account the vast amount of negative comments said for years about the perception of "talent" required to play or produce heavy metal music in general. I'm sure we can all remember hearing people years ago make comments about how they thought there was no "talent" involved in this genre of music--I know I sure can. And it would be improper for any of us to turn around and say that about each others' musical tastes, or the music anyone else listens to.

Personally, I completely disregard the whole idea of "talent" when I listen to music. To me, it's completely irrelevant. I listen to music that I like because I like it, and it's really just as simple as that. It doesn't matter to me if a band has the most awesome guitarist or singer or whatever...if I don't like the songs, I won't listen to it. I don't listen to any music for the sole purpose of awe'ing over the "talent" shown in the work. In its most pure form, I believe all music should be about making the best songs the artist can produce--not about showing off "talent".

So, I certainly hope you didn't take anything I said as criticizing you or anyone who sings in your style of vocals. I was only saying that I don't like that style of vocals, and nothing more. The same way someone might say "I don't like broccoli". They don't like it, and it's really just as simple as that. It doesn't imply or mean anything above that fact.

As far as my musical buds on the board go, the only thing that matters to me is that you have the cool gear you want, play the music you want, and you're all having a great time doing it. Life's too short to worry about any more crap than ya gotta. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Stu

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