OK, I hate Trivium

[siggy14]

Thrice is alot of fast licks, double kicks, but i can defintly see how it differs from your style, There first album sounds like a cross between metallica and a hardcore punk group. They even include the heavy bass from the Mesa's. This song is off there first album, trust me when i say turn down your bass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7HOd...related&search=

As to rap, well i guess it will always have a little place in my heart, i grew up in NY where ia m not sure if it started, but where it became big. I remember here sugerhill gangs rappers delight, and i liked it. Back then rap was fun, it was about having a good time. I am not really into the gansta stuff either, although I love ice t's colors song, probaly because i liked the movie.

That's cool Siggs..not exactly my cup o' joe, ..but I can't slam it.

My head's constantly in blast beats and double kicks with a alot of fast, complex stuff going on..ala Coroner,Death,Atheist,Nevermore,At The Gates,Exodus,Testament,Arch Enemy and trying to write my own shit along those lines..MOST people don't like my stuff,..but the ones that do are very loyal, ..like a cult..

To be honest the kids do the same thing at a Thrice as they do at a Exodus show..stage diviin', mosh pit..

I can't digest Rap tho..it just won't go down, I'll choke... ANYTHING that remotely sounds like Rap, makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up instantly..like nails on a chalkboard really..and puts me in a KILL mode, I just go into the red and break into a cold sweat with nausea..I'm wired like that..

I was submerged into that whole lifestyle..for 13 years as a ghetto cop..it wasn't good times for me!!

I had to run home to Metal to wash all the Rap off me..I'm soooooo serious!!:ROTF:

[Brick]

I just don't get it. Why are two very mediocre guitarists, one of which simply cannot sing, in a less than mediocre band, on every fuckin' guitar magazine nowadays?

GOOD QUESTION!

[siggy14]

Well hell i only eat it if it is pink inside. :ROTF:

See, all this to find out I'm a "horder"..and this is true!!

I really don't like Strawberry Ice cream..it's crap..but I always get stuck eating it..because my wife and kid eat all the fuckin' white and brown shit..and leave me all the pink shit!!

[horns666]

Well hell i only eat it if it is pink inside. :ROTF:

yeah..

good talk guys..

Goodnight dudes!!

Bill Z

[Guitardude86]

See but that is what drives me crazy, groups like Korn and Limp just didnt play on the lower 3 strings, there was more to it, but because there was rap involved most people down played it. I find nu metal to be some of the heaviest (guitar riff anyway) sounding music. That wall of sound just sounds mean and thick.

As to blaming nu metal for killing the solo, you cant even go there, that would be the grunge scene and the fact that 80's metal bands just burnt it out.

I am glad you listen to just more then speed speed speed. There is so much music out there, alot i dont like, but i dont feel the need to put it down, all music as some value to someone.

I am 36, i grew up in the 80's, i was old enough to enjoy it, but still to young to actualy be a major part of it, by the time I was old enough to move to LA and try to live the dream, the metal dream was starting to die and my music taste started to change.

As to Nu Metal, I liked it, but with any music it got old fast, i liked the pioneering groups such as Limp and Korn, but then with any style of music you had just to many made up groups trying to streal the spotlight. I dont really put Creed in the Nu Metal crowd, they are hard to place though, more of just a regular metal with alot of riffs.

Sorry for putting down any of the bands you like bro, I never wanted to offend you. I actually agree with you on nu-metal guitarists sounding heavy, let's face it there's a lot of gain going on, and you know I certainly don't have anything against that
I will try to explain of my point of view on this somehow, bear with me if you're actually bothered to read this
Many of the nu-metal guys, to my ears, were influenced by especially Vulgar Display Of Power era Pantera, and also Alice In Chains (Deftones were more influenced by Zao, or so they say themselves). I love both bands, I know not everyone will agree with me on AIC, but Jerry Cantrell is one heavy player mo-fo IMO Besides he was friends with Dimebag, so boo-hoo

Many times when I hear a typical nu-metal song, the first thing that strikes me is the heavy guitar sound. Once I hear that, you've got my attention.
Many times it reminds me of some Pantera-riffs (like, say, A New Level).
Then the vocals kick in, sometimes it's rap and sometimes not, whatever, there's many ways to express oneself. A lot of the stuff Phil did on VOP wasn't singing, but it wasn't all screaming all the time either. And I love that album so much!
So I listen to the song, and since I instantly think of Pantera or Alice In Chains I'm thinking: "Ok, when's the guitar solo coming? I'm sure the guitarplayer is cooking up something really cool now!"
And I wait.. And I wait. The song ends, and I'm left disappointed..
Aniother thing bugging me is that, and I know this does not apply to everyone, but some vocalists dress in very baggy clothes and rap and hang out with and appear in songs with the big rappers like DMX, Method Man, Redman etc. If all you wanna do is hang out with rappers, what do you need a band for? This puzzles me:-P
My mind fails to comprehend something: These guys were inspired by (in part) Pantera and AIC, who in their turn were inspired by Van Halen (especially Pantera), Judas Priest etc., even Deep Purple. All these bands had guitar players who, at one point in the song, took the center stage and played a blistering solo, it didn't have to be fast, it could be slow and very emotional too, but as long as it's THERE, I know that's just one more reason to go wild and salute the band furthermore.

I mean, don't the Nu Metal guys listen to Van Halen? Do they like any 80's or 70's guitar players at all? I just can't hear any influence being drawn from any of those bands.. It sounds a bit samey to me.
Just my opinion, nothing more I know I shouldn't have said "I don't like those or those guys", that always generates a lot of hostility and negative energy..
But I already fucked up, so I feel I have to do some explaining, that's all..
Hopefully I won't get my ass kicked for this..

Siggy you're a great dude with a lot of insight and interesting things to say and you are TOTALLY right;
There's no "right" or "wrong" in music and just because I'm narrowminded I shouldn't put any bands you like down just because of that. Sorry bro!
Am I putting more energy into this than necessary? Maybe, I lost a lot of sleep tonight thinking about this I hate it when I offend people and don't mean to. So that's that then, rant over.
I hope we can all continue being good friends and focusing our energy on things we agree on instead of things we disagree

[Endrik]

the fact is most of the metalheads don't know much about "nu metal" they only have heard the most popular bands.

When Bizkit and Lincoln Park came out and everyone was listening to that crap I was like WTF is this bullshit? I still think that Bizkit and L-Park are horrible piece of shit. All those generic nu bands sounded crap to me, and all their clones too.

But there very many bands who used Prog elements and whatnot and sounded prertty cool to me. I loved Mudvayne, pretty technical stuff, singer blows though. Deftones was cool, very spooky and psychedelic vibe there. I liked Godsmack, Sevendust, Distrubed etc. None of them were generic Nu Metal. But as far as the typical stuff goes Korn had SOME stuff that was ok.

I dug some of those bands because they had groove.

Also only about 30% Nu bands rap.

Most of the singers in Nu Metal blew huge meat wand, also the guitarists weren't anything special, just average rhythm players. But the rhythm sections were KILLER. Way better than in the 80's heavy metal. They had the groove and technique. Let's take Mudvayne, the bass player is a top notch jazz/fusion bassist ala Stu Hamm and John Patitucci and the drummer does some sick polyrhythms all the time like Thomas Haake from Meshuggah and lays down some heavy groove like Vinny Paul.

Even that Fieldy dude from Korn can play, although he doesn't do much in Korn, Mike Muir wanted to him to play with Infectious Groove and that says a lot.

Guitardude, I'm sure Nu Metallers listened to some 80's stuff and 70's stuff, you know some of them started in Hair Metal bands....it's true.
But Nu metal's roots aren't Van Halen or Iron Maiden.
It's hardcore/punk ala Black Flag, Bad Brains etc. + some darker souding metal ala Slayer, Pantera etc. + alternative rock and grunge.

But when Metalcore and Screamo came out I was like this is the end of rock'n'roll. No groove, even worse singers than in Nu metal and all the songs sound exactly the same. Yeah they made solos popular again but I don't like how they play anyway so I don't care, to me the new type of soloing blows. It doesn't have anything in commong with the playing style wich was in the 70's and 80's. Back then eveyone had a distinctive style and the guitar playing was full of different nuances...different vibratos, dynamics, harmonics, note choice, out of box thinking etc. but new players don't have any nuances in their playing, they just play notes and therefore the sound all the same to me. Today's players don't have the attitude and the blues in their playing.

I don't care if the music has heavy guitar in it or not, I'll take Larry Carlton's playing in Steely Dan over any of this new stuff because it sounds sincere and real.

[Guitardude86]

Endrik you're one brutal mutha fukka.. But you're one of those guys who love music, not trends, this has nothing to do with love/hate for nu-metal, it's so obvious in your posts. You know a lot about music in general!
You are one of the most insightful people on this board and I for one am glad you're here, to share your point of views and correct us ignorant newbies Rock on

[Infernal Death]

Only thing is that 5 people can't support those bands and they'll be gone soon. A band I like a lot, Galactic Cowboys, put out a bunch of really cool records, very melodic but heavy in their way.

They had to give up their band, not because of the band not getting along. They got along fine. They just couldn't make enough money to support their families. So they split in the 90s to work day jobs. What a waste.

That's what happens when the market for a genre shrinks beyond a certain point. Suddenly, no new bands, venues to play in disappear, the whole thing dies. You want a flourishing scene with a bunch of bands who are not quite as good as YOUR band.

Hey Rich, seems like we talk about different "size" of bands. I guess roughly 80-90% of the bands i hear have normal jobs and the music is "just" a hobby. Yes 5 people won't support a band enough so they can live from their music. But let me play the devil's advocate and ask: why do have bands to earn their money with the music they make ? Of course if the music pays all the bills, they can concentrate more on the music/band. But there are so many bands out there that do the whole band thing as a hobby and put out amazing music.
Well i don't know the band Galactic Cowboys but i don't get why they had to split. I mean sure if you have a normal job you don't have so much time anymore for the music. But they also could have carried on with the band, just on a smaller level. Nothing wrong with that.

Flo

[dd3keegs]

I just don't get it. Why are two very mediocre guitarists, one of which simply cannot sing, in a less than mediocre band, on every fuckin' guitar magazine nowadays?

Cool...Rock on Trivium! Young Metalheads get a chance, make music and get free publicity! Who'd thunk it could happen? Welcome to America Gentlemen. The only thing I see is extreme jealousy at their great luck...and zealous devotion to shred metal their own way! LOL! All you nay sayers out their should ask yourselves this question..." If I were in their shoes... would take the ball and run with it, as they have?"

[Endrik]

Endrik you're one brutal mutha fukka.. But you're one of those guys who love music, not trends, this has nothing to do with love/hate for nu-metal, it's so obvious in your posts. You know a lot about music in general!
You are one of the most insightful people on this board and I for one am glad you're here, to share your point of views and correct us ignorant newbies Rock on

well thanks man

I try to be as open minded as possible but I can't love everything that's for sure, there are certain things that I look in music....vibe, feel, mood, groove, melody, hooks, dynamics, originality etc. and it also has to be the real deal. I'm VERY selective. Just because there are cool solos in the song doesn't make me want to buy the whole albums if the music sucks.

I've done tons of research about different stuff because of my love for music in general. Even if I don't like something I still try to aknowledge it and know the roots, because all the different music is connected to each other somehow.

I really love a lot of different stuff but what pisses me off is the people who say that they like all kinds of music and are very open minded but really aren't. There are so many fake people.

I've seen tons of metalheads/metal musicians who claim that they like blues and jazz and classical or whatever and they mix all the music together and therefore sound really unique. What a load of crap I say.

When I start listening some of their music, I don't hear any of that other stuff in their music. When they are doing a "Best albums of 200..." list, all their albums are strictly metal. When you ask them about what artist they like from those other genres, It's always Stevie Ray Vaughan and Jimi Hendrix from blues, Mozart, Bach and Beethoven from Classical and Miles Davis from Jazz. Sounds familiar uh?

When I ask about Albert King, they have only heard the name (wich also can be a lie), when I ask what's your favourite Mozart composition, then it's "I don't know" or "I don't have a favourite, I like 'em all", or when I ask about Miles Davis and since they are "so big" Miles fans what do they think of Mahavishnu Orchestra, Chick Corea, The Brecker Brothers, Ornette Coleman etc. ......they don't know. Utter BS'ing all the time.

But I'm the real deal, I can assure you, I may not know every single name from every sub-genre but I know my shit because I sincerely love it.

You know I was heavily into the music since I was 4-5 years old, my first favourite band was Genesis, pretty funny uh, little kid listnening to complex progressive rock while the others are into bubblegum pop I've always been into "weird" stuff.

I am always a rocker and guitar player first, I love what rock'n'roll is about, I don't take music too seriously, I like to have fun, I like to play on huge stages, I like to have sex with as many girls as possible...I love playing big riffs and screaming leads on a guitar but I've always realised that rock has its limits, I've always had the urge to discover more and more and more.

I've made the biggest progression as a musician when I didn't listened to rock music at all. I was into some WEIRD shit man.

I lost interest in guitar players, I started listening to bass and drums and applied all those rhythms and grooves into my guitar playing.
I'm all about groove, I'm a funky SOB. I'm a HUGE fan of Funk and Motown. Lately I know more about funk bass players than rock guitarists
Sly And The Family Stone, George Clinton & Parliament/Funkadelic, The Brothers Johnson, The Meters, James Brown etc. are very important to me.

Of corse I've always had interest in black people's music. Thank god I started with the blues, I always like to play the blues and I know a lot about blues, yes I like Stevie Ray Vaughan too like all the other white folks but IMO Billy Gibbons is much cooler...my fav. guitarist ever. And I've listened tons of REAL stuff too off corse....Robert Johnson, Howlin' Wolf, T-Bone Walker, Albert King, Buddy Guy etc.

I got lotsa love for Soul, Gospel and R'n'B too and I dig some rap, the oldschool stuff of corse...NWA, Run DMC, Beastie Boys etc..

I don't need to say how much I love jazz and fusion, pretty much everyone knows that allready and I love Miles Davis...not because he is famous but because his music touches me emotionally, I'm a die hard fan...I play his trumpet licks all the time on guitar. Yes I dig Al Di Meola, Holdsworth and all that stuff too and Buddy Rich Orchestra and Charlie Parker and John Coltrane but once I was heavily into the craziest atonal experimental jazz wich is something that most of the people don't know about.

Black music is probably the most important for me.

But as an European I still appriciate classical music, Mozart and Beethoven are good but I don't have any interest listening to that stuff, I love impressionists... Claude Debussy is my fav. composer ever. Most of the folks don't know who he is. I also love Maurice Ravel and northern/scandinavian composers like Jean Sibelius from Finland and Edvard Grieg from Norway....Peer Gynt kicks major ass.

That being said I don't like most of the European music because it lacks groove. European music is VERY VERY straight beat always. There are exceptions off course, South-East music is very rhtyhmical and sounds very eastern, I love that stuff. I studied a lot of that stuff in Greece by ear. British rock music durning the 60's and 70's was very groovy too. I also love some of the Irish and Celtic folk stuff. Let's go to Spain and we have the most challenging music for guitar ever...Flamenco. Everyone who knows me says I'm a flamenco nut
But Gypsy Jazz is almost insane as flamenco and I love that stuff too...Django Reinhardt and the Rosenberg bros are one of my fav. players.

Since I mentioned Flamenco, it influenced another one of my favourite music...Latin. I love Latin because the music is very technical and melodical at the same time...also latin music has the most insane rhythms ever. All that Samba, Bossa Nova, Lounge Jazz thing can also be very relaxing. But Cuban and Jamaica stuff is cool too, I love some Reggea but I dig Beguine, Zouk and Gwo Ka more.

In Africa there's tons of cool rhythmical stuff too, you know all those tribal ensembles and whatnot, I like Zulu and Juju but from modern stuff I dig Makossa, Marabi Mbaqanga, Bikutsi etc. the most.

But most people don't know that Asian music has also some of the sickest rhtyhms. Asian music has also some of the best melodies. My speciality in University is Asian culture so I know a lot about Asian music.

I've taken tons of middle Asian melodies and put them into my playing, not everyone is familiar with that stuff but I know some folks do know something about Raga.
But my fav. is the East Asian music. Japanes and Chinese, specially the Japanese. I dig everyhing from Gagaku to J-pop and J-rock. I think the musicality in Japan is the most advanced in the world right now.

Many great players are into Asian stuff....Vai, Friedman, McLaughlin, Lynch etc.
I know that Vai and Friedman are true fans of that kind of music and really know a lot about it. But many new players who want to sound oriental don't know shit about that music, they only steal licks from Steve and Marty. Yet again, ignoring the roots.

Australian music is cool... I like all that aborigen stuff and AC/DC

I think Hawaiian is great banging music

American white music is hated by many...country...I'm not a fan of country but I like bluegrass because the players in bluegrass are insane, if you practice that stuff you'll get amazing chops. Also country influenced pop music - Nashville pop is one of my favourite type of music right now because it sounds real and the musicians there are the best. But any pop that sounds real get's my appriciation...one of my latest favourites is Christina Aquilera.

Same thing with punk, if it's real and has a lot of attitude I'll like it. Ramones and Sex Pistols sounded real, Bink 182 does not.

I also know a great deal about electronical music, I was a pretty cood DJ, I'm into more chill-out and groove stuff...lounge, trip-hop, ambient, nu-jazz, house, jungle etc. but I hate all that trance and hardstyle shit with passion.

I really don't dig all that new Indie music, metalcore, screamo...there are some decent stuff but it lacks the things I'm looking in a music. Most of the European pop and metal suck IMHO. As I said before, no groove.
I'm not into metal at all lately, I even can't stand most of the stuff anymore, specially the real brutal stuff. When I was 15 I could listen to thrash (huge fan, had 'em all....Tallica, Megadeth, Testament, Exodus, Anthrax, Flotsam and Jetsam, Forbidden etc.) and even some death and grindcore stuff, but right now can't stand it anymore. But I take all that oldschool brutal death over the new melodic death/thrash thing wich sounds really annoying. Never liked black metal, because musically that's pretty much the opposite of everything I like, there's not even a one element in that music I like. I can't decide wich one I dislike more...Black Metal or Hardstyle Trance.

One thing I've noticed, the bigger and more accomplished the musician is, the more open mided he/she is (really). All those millionaires know tons about different music. Those who play in clubs allways say this sucks and this is gay and that one over there is even worse.....this is fake, he is about the money, she has no talent etc etc. blah blah blah.... But don't realise that their own music is so primitive because they igonre all the other types of music.

[Norton]

Bill,


Since you mentioned that you know Jeff Loomis personally,

Do you have any idea,how much do the band(nevermore) earn per year?

[Guitardude86]

Damn Endik.. I learned more about different styles of music reading your post than my teachers ever taught me in 3 years at school
If you somehow manage to absorb all that music and incorporate it into your playing you must be one accomplished guitarist!
It would be awesome to hear you play once, I'm sure you'd blow any listener's mind..

[Boxcar Willie 84]

I cant believe i read the whole thing but this band mentioned two of my favorite bands....Thrice and Deftones. Siggy you should check out The Receiving End of Sirens if you havent yet, I have been listening to them a lot lately.

[Endrik]

Damn Endik.. I learned more about different styles of music reading your post than my teachers ever taught me in 3 years at school
If you somehow manage to absorb all that music and incorporate it into your playing you must be one accomplished guitarist!
It would be awesome to hear you play once, I'm sure you'd blow any listener's mind..

nah, I just like to talk a lot

seriously, I think I would be a pretty good session player, not as good as Lukather of corse, but I think I'd do a pretty good job, many local producers and artists have asked me to do sessions for them but I usually just say "blow me" because I don't like 'em But I'm working on a new band, I have a smoking rhythm section, maybe next year we will record some shit...who knows.....It's gonna be something like I Mother Earth, King's X, Extreme, Living Colour etc. we'll see

[Davey]

Davey, no matter how much anyone think bands like Trivium suck..and I'm not even going to debate or defend them..

They are bringing my kind of shred to the masses..for the first time in 15 years..not just them, ANY metal band for that matter.

If Trivium came on the scene 6-7 years ago, when there wasn't a solo anywhere in sight in the mainstream .. you may or may not feel the same way..

I think the prob is that everyone is shredding again..and they are lame in comparison to alot of players in the game...when there wasn't a game 6-7 years ago.

well... the problem is.. i listen to 0 mainstream music... and in comparrison to the bands i normaly listen to.. well, you get the idea.


and that kid rules man.. i just hope it's not a fad for those kind of kids.. you know.. i hope they actualy make something out of it and not just leave it after they finish college. there's too many like that. i know a couple personaly, that are IMMENSE players, that play circles around a lot of todays "top" stars, but they dont use that talent to make something out of it. those are the good kind of kids. the ones that try to be some generic metal core band, and are ignorant of other kinds of music are just posers. we dont need posers, we need real talented players (like the kid you posted) to go out and shred our faces off.