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Metallica and their success

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  • #16
    Re: Metallica and their success

    "For some reason..." yeah, probably wasted [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    And Metallica's tone on those early albums was explained in a GW interview - they recorded each track multiple times, layering the guitars, and each track only had one note of each chord all the way through.
    Which means they played "Master of Puppets" once fretting only the roots, then went back and layered the 5ths or whatnot, then went back again and layered the octaves. Then they doubled those three guitar tracks.
    If you've got recording equipment, try recording like that. You'd be surprised how tight and forcefull the sound gets.
    Also, they didn't use Max Gain for the rhythms. At higher gain levels, the tone begins to dissolve and buzz, but by doubling tracks, lower gain levels seem to smooth out and sound like high gain - hence everyone chasing that tone through Mesa, VHT, Bogners, etc. Every recent "Metal" amp like the Double and TripleRecs were built to try to duplicate the rhythm tones on Ride and Puppets, because that's what players/customers wanted.

    As for Metallica's success - heavy constant touring. When other bands did a few months of touring and a couple of months of recording, then a couple of months of marketing (street team stuff, etc), Metallica were touring. When Justice came out they toured 2 years straight to promote it. They toured to promote each album when it was released instead of waiting at home for the sales reports. They got the success by playing anywhere and everywhere they could set up, and for anyone that would listen. They also had a great deal of help from fans who passed out the recordings of their shows and their "EP" No Life Til Leather.
    The worldwide underground fanbase system worked for Metallica - fans would mail boxes of copies of their live shows to friends and family all over the world (literally) and they would pass them out for free just to spread the music.

    Of course, people seem to forget that fact when they b!tch about Metallica suing Napster and MP3.com and the like, but once upon a time Metallica NEEDED the fans to freely distribute their music; they don't need their fans to do that anymore.
    Of course, once upon a time Metallica said they'd never have a contrived, stupid video ("One" was neither contrived nor stupid - the movie clips in it were from the same story the song was written from), and they slammed MTV - then one day they show up on stage playing 'Beat It'.

    It doesn't change the past, but it sure does darken their future.

    Newc
    I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

    The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

    My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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    • #17
      Re: Metallica and their success

      I figured someone around here would know the secret behind that killer rhythm sound, thanks for the informative reply Newc. And for straightening out my self-admitted limited history here. But I could tell they weren’t maxing out the Gain when I listened to Puppets. One of the things that impressed (and perplexed) me about their guitar sound here was how they managed to get such a rich tone with the resonant harmonics screaming through like that, without washing out the signal with Gain and effects.

      And I want that rhythm sound too. It’s one of the coolest things since loose woman. I definitely want to counterfeit that studio tone somehow, so does anyone have any opinions on what would be the best new “Metal” amp to buy?

      For reference, I’d be playing a Kramer Striker with a trembucker pick-up through it, and a Charvel Model 3 with stock pick-ups. These are the only two guitars I have left, both from the 80s.

      [ November 22, 2003, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Totenkopf ]

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      • #18
        Re: Metallica and their success

        it's not a new amp but a good place to start is get yourself a Boogie Mark 2C+ if you can afford it and if you're lucky enough to find a genuine one.
        You will get very close to that tone with a blue stripe Boogie Mark 3. If you believe the rumors about the stripes on Mark 3's, the blue stripe models are the closest they ever came to duplicating the 2C+ tone. By that time they had tweaked both the pre and power amps as close as they could to the 2C+ according to this page http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html
        I will record some clips for you in the next couple days if I have time.

        Originally posted by Totenkopf:
        I figured someone around here would know the secret behind that killer rhythm sound, thanks for the informative reply Newc. And for straightening out my self-admitted limited history here. But I could tell they weren’t maxing out the Gain when I listened to Puppets. One of the things that impressed (and perplexed) me about their guitar sound here was how they managed to get such a rich tone with the resonant harmonics screaming through like that, without washing out the signal with Gain and effects.

        And I want that rhythm sound too. It’s one of the coolest things since loose woman. I definitely want to counterfeit that studio tone somehow, so does anyone have any opinions on what would be the best new “Metal” amp to buy?

        For reference, I’d be playing a Kramer Striker with a trembucker pick-up through it, and a Charvel Model 3 with stock pick-ups. These are the only two guitars I have left, both from the 80s.
        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
        1+2 = McGuirk, 2+4 = She's hot, 6-4 = Happy McGuirk

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        • #19
          Re: Metallica and their success

          Hey Totenkopf if you get a Boogie Mark IIC then I have some settings that a Mesa/Boogie employee sent me to approximate the old Metallica guitar tone, and I know a site where James' live settings for his old II Cs are posted, for the AJFA tour. Bear in mind that both of them used other things besides just amps to get their tones. In his live rig for the MOP and AJFA tours, James used a Rocktron Compressor/Limiter/Hush, as well as a few effects units...just things like that will make a big difference in tone. Also be sure to pick up a Furman PQ3 parametric eq, because they both used those in the studio back then as well!

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          • #20
            Re: Metallica and their success

            Buzz, Boxcar:

            Man, that’s two votes for the Mesa Boogie Mark2C. I’ll definitely have to look into this type of amplifier. When I was a kid back in the 80s, I always heard good things about Mesa products. Thanks for the advice both of you, and also for the link Buzz. And Box, I included the EQ unit in my list of suspected effects. Maybe if I were a stubborn 19 year old kid again, I might be able to rustle up all that vintage Hair Band gear. I’m down to a pathetic 4 items from all the cool crap I had back in the day: the 2 guitars I mentioned above, a broken 80 watt Crate amp (the overdrive circuit is dead), and a Boss Flanger. I must have been a big Van Halen fan back then. I still got a Flange unit and a Kramer (with only one humbucking pick-up, like Eddie’s guitar of course) product. I always really liked that “Brown Sound” tone he used anyway. [img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

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            • #21
              Re: Metallica and their success

              That's ok man...James used a Boss Hi-Band Flanger in his live rig on the Puppets tour [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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              • #22
                Re: Metallica and their success

                Originally posted by Accept2:
                but if your songs are like Nitro's, then youre gonna stink up the place.........
                <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Aw, you did NOT say that! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

                What, you don't think "Freight Train" contained epic lyrics? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                "Like a Freight TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!!!!!!!!!!"

                Heh heh
                "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

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                • #23
                  Re: Metallica and their success

                  "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

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                  • #24
                    Re: Metallica and their success

                    Machine Gun Eddie... Eddddiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
                    I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Metallica and their success

                      I for one will never miss that hair [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                      Or the "Sensual Macho" posing [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                      OR them damn BMW-windshield sunglasses [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img]

                      Yewwww hewwww, thaylor boyyyy [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                      Newc
                      I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                      The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                      My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Metallica and their success

                        LMAO @ RON

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                        • #27
                          Re: Metallica and their success

                          Opeth is now also geting some great, heavy sounds by layering their guitars. Their trick is to record a couple different chord voicings, like the normal low power chord, and then a full chord or higher voicing of the power chord. Then they layer each of those parts once or twice. And on each track they only use a little bit of distortion, and combined with good reverb and effects the result is a clear but heavy wall of guitar sound. Listen to Blackwater Park, and you'll hear what I mean. Some hate it, I love it!

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                          • #28
                            Re: Metallica and their success

                            totenkopf was the sign of Waffen-SS or Gestapo but i think rather that that logo belonged to the first formation -am i right those wer the guys who were "WORKING" in the concentration camps ( Auschwitz - Birkenau , Dachau ) ?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Metallica and their success

                              Originally posted by RacerX:
                              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh look, cross-dressing mannequins, and they're PISSED OFF!!

                              HEHE Nitro were comical to me, looking back it is truly absurd for a grown man to pucker up for the camera......... [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img] Lots of bands did it back then.....

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                              • #30
                                Re: Metallica and their success

                                Laugh at me.........flame me.....whatever, but Metallica is the single biggest influence on my playing period. Being a Metallica fan was like being in a brotherhood.

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