What's so good about petrucci?

[petedz]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

It'll die when everyone agrees that technical prowess without musical ability is masturbation.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newc, I agree completely with your assertion. However, Dream Theater has a very high level of musical ability AND technical prowess. Best of both worlds. [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

They've just had some trouble with consistency since Kevin left. Every other album has been good: ACoS-good; FII-bad; SFaM-good; 6DoIT-bad; ToT-good .... IMHO, of course.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Originally posted by Newc:
I saw nothing wrong with MT's comments - yes Petrucci is a great technician - woopie fukkin doo, he can blaze in odd time signatures and do seemingly complex fingerings [img]graemlins/sleep.gif[/img] but I have to agree with Chuckracer - where's the song? They make music for the benefit and acceptance of other technicians, plain and simple. I mean, how many people here (past and present) can shred? Judging by thr MP3 section, a helluva lot of us.
If those submissions were to be judged solely on their technical merits by other players "in the bizness", some folks around here might actually get a gig on G3 or opening for DT and the like. But where does it end? You WANT to be known as the guy who knows all the theory and has devastating technique and composes in all keys at once and all that happy shit? Why? No matter how technically proficient you become, there will always be someone better. More precisely, there will always be someone with a different approach.
Let's look at Rhoads: Today, his most-technical pieces are easily transcribed, and when compared head-to-head with today's players, Randy's technique is closer to Jimmy Page's.
However, Yngwie, Vai, Satch, Petrucci, Wylde, etc etc etc cannot capture the same presence and character that Randy played with. They can duplicate his tone and play his stuff note for note, but they can't capture the one thing that still makes him a better player - phrasing. What he does to the note itself - how he makes it sound like that. Yeah yeah any stooge can do pinch harmonics, scalar runs, and sliding chords, but no one makes them sound more interesting that Rhoads did.

So yeah, Petrucci would be up shit creek if he had to play something that was not aimed at other technicians. As a musician, I don't consider him a fellow musician - he's a technical master and a musical moron, but he doesn't know shit about music outside of the math.

Newc

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As an art form I like colored paint instead of just black and white drawings but you can express yourself in both worlds that's what its all about. If you can express yourself with simple songs cool, if you can't express yourself with complex pieces that's fine too bit don't dog it.

Mozart and Bach...where's the song? They expressed themselves very well but most people aren't into it...doesn't mean it not good stuff. Just as classical guitarist may never head SRV wail, doesn't mean it isn't good either, just different.

when people dog certain types of music..its usually guitarists who are either too lazy to improve their abilities or musical knowledge base and learn other stuff that is outside their comfort zone or stuck in the simplistic form of music. Where you are at doesn't matter just as long as YOU are happy with it.

I have the opposite viewpoint on your last statement, I think Pertucci COULD play and create stuff that is not technically challenging, and for what its worth technically challenging isn't always good stuff. I think that is the difference. People who possess the technique and musical knowledge CAN play simpler blues type stuff it they so choose. But if you reverse the tides can a blues based player break out of the pentatonics and improvise over a difficult jazz or classical progression? Maybe...

As mentioned by several people its all a matter of tastes...I like all forms of music and can play a lot of them. I lean towards classical influences more than blues or jazz but it doesn't mean I can't play with feel have a great time playing an AC/DC cover.

for the record I don't have an issue with anyone's opinion, I like JP but I only have 2 albums of DT stuff. Also I would be disappointed if I went to a DT show and all they performed were Metallica songs [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[tmdiamond]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Look, it's all a matter of taste really. I believe that JP can and does play moving, meaningful, pieces as well as the blazing technical stuff. The song "State of Grace" off the LTE I cd is an example, IMO. I was so moved by that piece that I played it for my wife at our wedding. My former keyboard player friend learned all the piano/strings and I programmed my TC G-Force to play all the guitar harmonies that come in at the end of the song. Point is, it's an easy song to play and it is very emotional without having any difficult technical parts. On Scenes From A Memory, there are songs that showcase his emotional side as well. So he shows off a bit...so what....my taste tells me that he's an emotional player as well. Like I said, it's all about taste in music.

Mt, I appreciate your words and the apparent change, albeit slight, in attitude. Just try and listen more to the music and don't get too hung up on the whole "so and so is better than...." thing. I'll never have the chops Petrucci or Vai has. But it's fun trying to get to that point. I have those guitarists who influence or inspire me and I'll always consider them the "best". But in reality, noone is the "best". Every one of us and every one of our influences in the guitar field is only as good as we think they are in the grand scheme of things.
Tom

[mt]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

I have heard of randy!! I know the history!, I know the RR guitar!

I just never took the time to listen to his music........

ok.. all I wanted, was to know why these ppl I know like dream theater so much, since all I hear from them is... described in my previous posts...

and then I expressed my personal views on their music... in the hopes that someone will straighten me up and enlighten me about the essence of DT that I don't hear... is that getting caught up in who's better??

this is getting too over the top, some of u guys are just too judgemental. so I shouldn't even express negative opinions on anybody, or compare any 2 artist? everyone has good or bad, if ur so not happy that I stated negative opinions (I did state good opinions)then tell me where Im wrong in a reasonable way. if I was unreasonable in saying that I can stomp JP, fine, I did go over the top, and I apologize. but if u're unreasonably judgemental ur not much better either.

[ March 12, 2004, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: mt ]

[jgcable]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

MT, you certainly did go over the top with your statement about stomping Petrucci. The only one around here that can accomplish that lofty goal is me. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I value your comments and observations. You made some really good points. There are alot of very knowledgeable kick ass players on this board so you will always get mucho opinions on a great player such as JP. [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[AlexL]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

I think dream theater writes great songs. Their most recent albums have steered clear of shorter AOR, but they have had their share of short, melodic, musical compositions. Heck, listen to "Innocence Faded".

But, even if you don't like their music, I would guess that most people here have different moods and listen to music based on those moods. When I want easy-listening I listen to Abba (you want a lesson in songwriting - they made millions with short, memorable melodies), when I want folk rock I listen to Jethro Tull, and when I want to hear someone burnig up the fretboard, I listen to Dream Theater. And Petrucci does it well. DT isn't going to fill every musical void, but what they do, they do well.

There - I managed to discuss Abba and DT in the same thread. And no one thought it could be done.

- E.

[lerxstcat]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

To knock techincally proficient players by saying any stooge can do it is [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] !

80% of all rock or metal guitarists CAN'T
do it, and right or wrong those are usually the guys knocking it, BECAUSE they CAN'T do it but pretend they don't WANT to. Again, [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] !

On the other hand, the tech guys slamming each other is just as bad - anyone who's better you vilify and pick holes in, and
those who're worse you hold in contempt.
The guys on your own level you hate most because they're right there with you, competing for recognition. This is why shred died in the early 90s.

Shredders can play with feel, and 'feel' players who've put in some practice ca shred if called upon. Neither is better than the other, and knocking either is not productive.

John Petrucci not a musician? Well, music is his life and livelihood, not hanging around a guitar forum judging other players. He lets his fingers do the talking. I hear plenty of feel in his playing, but maybe that's just my good ear, huh? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[mt]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

who was 'knocking' technically proficient players by saying any stooge can do it?

if u're technically proficient and u make great music then that's absolutely great. if ur not technical and u make great music that's great too. if ur technically proficient and ur music is crap, then whats the point. I believe ppl were arguing that music is what matters, rather than 'knocking' on players who are technically proficient.

if ur ears are so good maybe u should read other ppl's posts outloud to urself so that comprehension results. [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Newc was. Read the post. Devaluing technical ability is no better than devaluing great feel; both are stupid.

Maybe you should learn to spell and write, boy! [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Tekky]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Originally posted by AlexL:
There - I managed to discuss Abba and DT in the same thread. And no one thought it could be done.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think we're gonna have to get you a cookie for that man! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mt]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

er,.. no he wasn't

"No matter how technically proficient you become, there will always be someone better."

thus technical abilities doesn't really matter much in comparison to the music

that's how i understand his argument, and it is very well supported. "any stooge can do it" is simply an exaggerated premise (that's quite true) to the argument.

he was NOT undermining technically proficient players by the "any stooge can do it" premise. he was arguing something else.

ya I truly should, shouldn't I? gotten used to too much internet chatting... afterall english IS my 2nd language. what about u huh? maybe u should get some more higher education (if u haven't already), like the course im taking.. modes of reasoning... which is pretty meager in terms of logic (easy arts course) compared to my math and computer science and economics courses. [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Tekky]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

mt: "Lighten up Francis!"

AlexL: Here you go...

<center></center>

[lerxstcat]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Mt, I have a college degree, with honors, thanks so much for asking.

That using 'u' for 'you're' and similar
usage is really pre-Y2K though. The last
person we had here doing that was a 17-year-old boy masquerading as 14-year-old twin girls. You remind me of him a bit, come to think of it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

If you're working on English as your 2nd language, it's better to learn correct English than to write teenage slang trying to be cool. Where are you from,
out of curiosity?

[mt]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

that's very good,, but im rather surprised if that's the case, given ur misintepretation of Newc's argument. perhaps u should try the reading it out loud method. [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img] (just pulling ur leg u know that)

no im very 'technically proficient'(LOL) in english already. im working on a compsci + commerce double major. I'm from everywhere.. lived around the world in different countries all my life. I have close friends from every continent (except the icey ones of course).

but I was born in Taiwan.. and I still only hold the taiwanese passport.

yess.. I know.. we all hate MITaiwan music products... but hey, at least they make good computer stuff... I use "they" cuz I dun feel taiwanese at all now... ppl here that are from taiwan think im weird and I think they're weird (its a common thing amongst expatriates)... so...

what do u expect.. I AM a teenager... but I wasn't aware that I use teenage slangs.. any examples? the u instead of you thing... if u have as many friends around the world as I have, u know the only way to keep close with them is chatting.. and if u chat as much as I do... u'd know how proper grammar and spelling is too inefficient and unrealistic for chatting. try chatting to 10 ppl at a time... I just got used to typing in that way..

aTleAsT I d0Nt tALk L1|<3 ThIS hu|-|?! LOL!!!
also.. I wasn't aware there was a paradigm shift in typing over the millenium... im behind the times now! no~!

a lot of the older generation ppl I've talked with think the young generation chat with random ppl online.. er... I only chat with my close friends...

and no... im not trying to be cool with my language use...

hey, ur glad that I asked so u can boast about ur college degree aren't ya? [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img] LOL

what did u major in may i ask?

[ March 12, 2004, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: mt ]

[AlexL]

Re: What\'s so good about petrucci?

Originally posted by TEKKY:
AlexL: Here you go...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks!!! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]


- E.