The DOUBLE STANDARD

[VoiceX3]

I didn't bash Dave at all, I( said he was a decent lead player, but that he couldn't "keep up" with Friedman or Poland, which is a fair assessment. Friedman in particular is better at velocity, complexity AND note choice. That's not a slam of Dave because you could say the same comparing Marty to a LOT of excellent players.

Annah as an example of a female player is a bit disingenuous though... I dig her stuff but she was born a male and learned to play guitar as a man. So is her experience that of a typical female player? I don't know, I guess she felt female way back when, but she fathered a child and had a marriage as a male too, so....

She might have unique insights to offer on both sides of the aisle!

I wasn't pinpointing you for bashing Dave, so please don't take that as me targetting you personally. Dave really can't be compared to Marty, Chris or Glen Drover or even Jeff Young.....completely different style. (he does smoke Kirk)

I don't see Annah as anything but a girl as she doesn't either, but since if we're gonna look at it that way why don't we look at girls like Britt Lightning of Jaded. http://www.jadedrockers.com
She's also a Jackson endorsed artist and is as good as almost any dude here.....better than most. There are plenty more too. Remember Jan Kuehnemund of Vixen? Look around and you'll find more.

[lerxstcat]

I didn't bash Dave at all, I( said he was a decent lead player, but that he couldn't "keep up" with Friedman or Poland, which is a fair assessment. Friedman in particular is better at velocity, complexity AND note choice. That's not a slam of Dave because you could say the same comparing Marty to a LOT of excellent players.

Annah as an example of a female player is a bit disingenuous though... I dig her stuff but she was born a male and learned to play guitar as a man. So is her experience that of a typical female player? I don't know, I guess she felt female way back when, but she fathered a child and had a marriage as a male too, so....

She might have unique insights to offer on both sides of the aisle!

[VoiceX3]

I don't know how this turned into a bash Dave Mustaine thread, and I have only a little thing to say to all that. Dave's rhythms are not simple. In fact they are very intricate.....you play them and try to sing them at the same time. Plus, although he is not the best lead player....he is a good one. Listen to his work over the years....if you can't hear that then maybe you should invest in a good stereo or hearing aids.

As for no women shredders.....I beg to disagree. Even on this board they are represented. Anyone here that can say Annah isn't great??? Plus she has a Jackson Endorsement, that didn't happen because she's a girl...it happenned because she kicks ass.

If you haven't heard her I suggest you check her out.

http://www.rightsideout.net/music/my_music.htm

[jim777]

Yngwie listened to Steve Hackett a lot and he worships him... and so do I

Hackett is entirely deserving of worship, he's a fantastic player

[hippietim]

If you think I was trying to "one up" anyone,then yes,you missed my point.

If you read past the initial comments "I stood 3 feet away..." to the "...and the guy can play Dave's parts easily" you can see what's implied.

My response addressed that once you read past the "I've seen him play 11 times..." to the "...and yet he doesn't" you should be able to get the point behind saying it in response to the above post.

Context for the win,it's your friend.

"sense of" post, yours I understand "...cannot".

[Evol]

uh....no. By snipping your quote, I was addressing that part of your post only. I didn't miss your point about Marty not sounding "right" playing Dave's lead lines, nor did I refute it. All I was trying to do was give some context to Pete's comments, since you needed to one-up Pete's "met Marty, watched him play from 3' away" (bit of LGS there?) with a "seen them 11 times, 3 from front row".

If you think I was trying to "one up" anyone,then yes,you missed my point.

If you read past the initial comments "I stood 3 feet away..." to the "...and the guy can play Dave's parts easily" you can see what's implied.

My response addressed that once you read past the "I've seen him play 11 times..." to the "...and yet he doesn't" you should be able to get the point behind saying it in response to the above post.

Context for the win,it's your friend.

[VitaminG]

which reminds me, anyone catch the classic albums episode of never mind the bollocks? some surprisingly layered stuff going on there.

no, I missed that one. It was on just the other night too. I can't bring myself to pay any attention to anything the Sex Pistols did.

I did watch the Disraeli Gears episode last week though - bloody brilliant, that!

[VitaminG]

I guess by snipping my quote there you're kinda missing my point...the comment about the amp was a joke,obviously. Yes,no matter what a guitar player plays through he still sounds like himself,that's been proven time and again,my point was that no matter how good he sounds,no matter how good his technique is,it would NOT sound right him playing Dave's parts.

uh....no. By snipping your quote, I was addressing that part of your post only. I didn't miss your point about Marty not sounding "right" playing Dave's lead lines, nor did I refute it. All I was trying to do was give some context to Pete's comments, since you needed to one-up Pete's "met Marty, watched him play from 3' away" (bit of LGS there?) with a "seen them 11 times, 3 from front row".

[Endrik]

i have two statements:

1. this thread is nothing but prick waving.

2. yeah, daves solo was rough in that cemetery gates cover, but jesus, that was the whitest, most nutless, grooveless, lamest cover i've heard in a while. my god man, abba could cover this song with more balls. i understand that dream theatre is held on a pedestal, but jesus christ on toast, it's just boring as hell. i have three words: the sex pistols. give me steve jones' pissed off never mind the bollocks playing anyday compared to these math-loving wankers. my god. i'd rather listen to four fucking hours of supertramp than hear these guys ever again.

oh. and yeah, what dm said!

sully

:ROTF: :ROTF:

anyway, I'm not gonna bash petrucci because he is better then I am but it's fucking weird listening to a band wich plays heavy guitar riffs and smooth jazz licks on top of it, I always want him to attack the guitar more, have more attitude in his playing, do something rock'n'roll instead of berklee theory excercie.... but no and then there's James Labrie... a melodramatic singer who doesn't have any balls whatsoever.
But you take someone like Steve Lukather who knows bazillion jazz licks and plays soft pop music most of the time, but when he is going to blaze he got fucking balls, he can go over to nasty Keith Richards mode and make the girls wet their pants.
Uh and Sex Pistols would make the guys in pantera look like school girls, they are the masters of chaos.
btw. Sully, Steve Jones is actually a very good guitar player, you never notice that with the Pistols, but he has done tons of session work with many big name artists, he can play dude.

[Evol]

I'm a bit late to the party, but anyhoo....






Pete is referring to an instance a few years ago that he shared with us where you met Marty at a clinic. IIRC, Pete said at the time that he'd always been unimpressed by the Crate Blue Voodoo, but Marty made that thing sound damn good. And playing through cheap gear off the shop floor still sounded like Marty.

Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, Pete.

I guess by snipping my quote there you're kinda missing my point...the comment about the amp was a joke,obviously. Yes,no matter what a guitar player plays through he still sounds like himself,that's been proven time and again,my point was that no matter how good he sounds,no matter how good his technique is,it would NOT sound right him playing Dave's parts.

Nor would Dave sound right playing Marty's parts,they BOTH have their places in the songs that they play leads on. And they kick ass playing harmonies together too,so there's that as well.

This somehow got turned around into a bash Mustaine thread,when my point in bringing him up in the whole damn first place was to disprove this silly notion that guitar players that play mostly rhythm can't play lead,for whatever reason. And when I named one,he got bashed,and a clip got posted of him playing a fucking cover tune as a guest that he screwed up ,for whatever reason,while these little perfectionists used it to go "see I told you he sucked" ,when he's played some of the meanest fucking rage filled,angry solo's that yes,FIT THE SONG.

It seems everyone wants to focus on a mistake instead of the millions of albums sold,the fucking METAL this dude has made,the generation of guitar players influenced to twist it to make their point.Pick on his technique,or what have you,it's so damn stupid.

[hippietim]

Denny Crane

[lerxstcat]

i have two statements:

1. this thread is nothing but prick waving.

2. yeah, daves solo was rough in that cemetery gates cover, but jesus, that was the whitest, most nutless, grooveless, lamest cover i've heard in a while. my god man, abba could cover this song with more balls. i understand that dream theatre is held on a pedestal, but jesus christ on toast, it's just boring as hell. i have three words: the sex pistols. give me steve jones' pissed off never mind the bollocks playing anyday compared to these math-loving wankers. my god. i'd rather listen to four fucking hours of supertramp than hear these guys ever again.

oh. and yeah, what dm said!

sully

Everybody has their own opinion, which is fine. Personally I could never stand the Sex Pistols, but if you grew up to them I can understand that. I was already a grownup when they came out and they did nothing for me.

On the other hand, I enjoy Dream Theater and would rather listen to Supertramp than the Sex Pistols since there's much more musically to offer me. But I'm not going to say "The Sex Pistols suck donkey dick in a Tijuana sideshow" just because I personally don't like the band.

Oh, shit! I guess I just DID say that, huh? Well, okay then....

[sully]

dunno. to me, they sound like a good karaoke band. technically adept as the day is long, but lacking the spark.

again, that's my opinion; i know that they've sold more records than i have, so whatev.

[slash-ed]

now i can comment to this, since you've been very complimentary of my playing (i'm SUPER appreciative of that, btw) and i don't fall into the demotion category. personally, i'd rather hear steve jones than a john petrucci wankfest. yeah, sure, the guy can play all day long, but it's BORING. which reminds me, anyone catch the classic albums episode of never mind the bollocks? some surprisingly layered stuff going on there. yeah, i know. wrong board for that kinda thought.

sully

That's cos Petrucci is pretty boring as a shredder, imo. He got totally outclassed by Gilbert during the G3 07 jams that I saw on the 'tube. He comes off to me as more of the work-dog type of shredder rather than having a heap of natural talent...

He did a helluva lot better job with the first part of the Cemetary Gates solo than Mustaine did, though.

[zeegler]

i have two statements:

1. this thread is nothing but prick waving.

2. yeah, daves solo was rough in that cemetery gates cover, but jesus, that was the whitest, most nutless, grooveless, lamest cover i've heard in a while. my god man, abba could cover this song with more balls. i understand that dream theatre is held on a pedestal, but jesus christ on toast, it's just boring as hell. i have three words: the sex pistols. give me steve jones' pissed off never mind the bollocks playing anyday compared to these math-loving wankers. my god. i'd rather listen to four fucking hours of supertramp than hear these guys ever again.

oh. and yeah, what dm said!

sully

I have to agree. That cover was a lifeless piece of moldy cardboard.

Can I wave my prick now?