The DOUBLE STANDARD

[Robert Burns]

Yep. It actually pissed me off when Yngwie would claim he didn't listen to other guitar players. Bullshit.
Well.. maybe he didn't listen to them but I am sure he was totally aware of them. Especially the ones that were mentioned in the same sentences as him.
With that said.. Yngwie would be considered an incredible guitar player. At least he is to me.

****************************
I remember him going on, and on about Ritchie Blackmoor, his idol growing up! He spent thousands of hours listening to Deep Purple.

[charvelguy]

Ya know.. it gets really bad when a person gets judged and put down and their playing hasn't even been heard. Its almost more like about having the last word.. hey, I'm winning! What did I win?..

...???


Nada.

[diablomozart]

ya know...i find this whole thread absolutely hilarious...and the reasoning is this...music is an artform of which everyone will have their own opinion of who's better, what makes a great solo, etc...so...instead of typing long-winded responses and arguing...how about everyone agree to disagree and go play guitar?...lol...d.m.

[charvelguy]

Musicians,I swear I would despise them all if I weren't one.

Maybe this sort of thing is a cultural one,I dunno,I grew up in South Tx. where when you played somewhere you had to rock the place.Noone gave a shit about what scale you were playing,how many notes per second you could pick,which modes you knew,blah blah blah,....they wanted to rock out.

And it seems the more I go different places,Hollywood being the worst by FAR,you do have that overly jealous,ego maniac lead guitar player talking shit about how he could do it better. So what? Go do it and stfu,stop judging people.....fact of the matter is this,and it's simple.....

Lead guitar players,listen up...you are NOT the center of the universe,you are not the BAND,you play songs that entertain mostly non-musicians,people who just love music.It's not a competetition,noone wins anything if you choose to ejaculate all over your fretboard,other than you having a dirty,sticky fretboard.

It's about having the balls to get up there and play your fucking heart out for the people that came to listen to you,to entertain THEM,not to please some snobby know-it-all that's not on stage.

To any aspiring lead guitar players,it's all about being creative and writing music that sounds and FEELS good in the style that is YOURS. Not what some jerk-off tells you,never let anyone tell you what to play,or that you suck.Anyone that does is a total prick,period. A real musician will offer you advice and not cut you to shreds in the process.There is nothing wrong with playing certain chords and scales,or not having a clue what the hell youre playing ,so long as it comes from within you and means so much.

Amen to that.. how many guitar players does it take to screw in a light bulb?..500.
One to get a ladder to climb and change the bulb out while the other 499 sit around and watch saying to one another "I could do that better"

[Evol]

I've met Marty and stood three feet from the guy while he was playing through a $99 Dean practice amp.

I've seen them play 11 times,3 from the front row,in front of Marty once and Dave twice.Although I'm fairly sure he was using a bit of a higher quality,more expensive amp at the time.

The guy can play anything he wants, and could play Dave's parts easily.

And yet he doesn't ....Dave does,and that's exactly how it should be,not because Marty is "better" than Dave,or vice-versa,because it FITS THE SONG!

"Too prissy" my foot.

I've never heard Marty play ANYTHING that sounds angry enough to me to match Dave's style.His style is more fluid and smooth to my ears than Dave's grating ,hate spewing leads.

The guy picks like he's trying to dig a hole in the top of the guitar, even if it is from underneath and his pick hand looks like a chicken pecking an attacker to death.

Makes my wrist hurt just watching him,quite a unique style he has,no doubt about it,very different.

Discover a few pentatonic boxes and you've pretty much learned the Dave Mustaine Lead Method.

pete

So,you're one of the guys that judges anothers music by their scales and note choice then.That's what makes a lead player "better" than another? Ok,that's cool,totally your opinion.

More proof of my point really,I mean it's all ok to have our opinions,but I tell you this,the dude has millions of fans (non prick-waving cock fighting overly competitive lead guitar players who judge professionals musical talents on the Internet ) who love the shit he plays,and I know for certain to my ears he plays what he feels FITS THE SONG.And would seem very successful at doing so....so..uhm,yah....



Musicians,I swear I would despise them all if I weren't one.

Maybe this sort of thing is a cultural one,I dunno,I grew up in South Tx. where when you played somewhere you had to rock the place.Noone gave a shit about what scale you were playing,how many notes per second you could pick,which modes you knew,blah blah blah,....they wanted to rock out.

And it seems the more I go different places,Hollywood being the worst by FAR,you do have that overly jealous,ego maniac lead guitar player talking shit about how he could do it better. So what? Go do it and stfu,stop judging people.....fact of the matter is this,and it's simple.....

Lead guitar players,listen up...you are NOT the center of the universe,you are not the BAND,you play songs that entertain mostly non-musicians,people who just love music.It's not a competetition,noone wins anything if you choose to ejaculate all over your fretboard,other than you having a dirty,sticky fretboard.

It's about having the balls to get up there and play your fucking heart out for the people that came to listen to you,to entertain THEM,not to please some snobby know-it-all that's not on stage.

To any aspiring lead guitar players,it's all about being creative and writing music that sounds and FEELS good in the style that is YOURS. Not what some jerk-off tells you,never let anyone tell you what to play,or that you suck.Anyone that does is a total prick,period. A real musician will offer you advice and not cut you to shreds in the process.There is nothing wrong with playing certain chords and scales,or not having a clue what the hell youre playing ,so long as it comes from within you and means so much.

[slash-ed]

Check out Dave murdering the fast solo from Cemetary Gates here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hiH_yDpyRDU

Marty is an insane player, great phrasing and a beautiful vibrato. Picks like a water buffalo, awesome.

[Endrik]

oh yeah, you are right Pete, Marty has a good attack... after all he is from the Ace Frehley's school of guitar playing.... and we all know how heavily Ace picked.

[Twisteramps]

My ears are just fine,thank you. Rude comments aside,technically it is your opinion,but you sort of proved my point here by acknowledging that Dave is a "decent" lead player,he HAS the ability he just chooses to focus on singing/songwriting and rhythm. He doesn't not play lead much because he sucks at it,which I believe was the OP's point.And he sure isn't afraid to stand on stage and rip it up with while Marty plays rhythm,so,uhm,yah,...

Now,to address your misguided comments about his ability to keep up with Poland or Freidman,well,this gets right back into the prick waving cock fight I mentioned earlier.

I guess it depends on how you judge what makes a player "better" than another. Is it notes per second? Whammy technique? Ability to play a billion scales?

To me it's WHAT you play....does it fit the song? In Dave's case,hell fucking yah it does,it's brutal shit,it's angry,intense and in your face. He said it himself,that he plays out of hate and Marty plays out of love. Neither one would sound right playing the others parts,they are not interchangeable as lead guitar players. Dave doesn't have the techniques Marty does to play his stuff,and Marty would sound too "prissy" playing Dave's parts.

Put it this way,it's like comparing Satriani to Kerry King
Both well respected lead guitar players in their styles of music,would either one sound worth a crap in the others band? I mean imagine Joe playing Angel of Death or Kerry playing Always with you...

Neither one of them is "better" than the other,but within their own styles they shine.

I've met Marty and stood three feet from the guy while he was playing through a $99 Dean practice amp. The guy can play anything he wants, and could play Dave's parts easily. "Too prissy" my foot. The guy picks like he's trying to dig a hole in the top of the guitar, even if it is from underneath and his pick hand looks like a chicken pecking an attacker to death. Discover a few pentatonic boxes and you've pretty much learned the Dave Mustaine Lead Method.

pete

[Endrik]

Let me tell you why James hetfield is a better player and musician overall.

First James Hetfield plays in tune, Hammett doesn't have any pitch, he is allways out of tune wich makes me puke.

Hetfield is a lot more versatile musician. He played all the guitar parts on Metallica's albums before Load except for the main solos.
He played rhythm parts, he played acoustic and classical guitars, he played 12 string guitar parts, he played all those bluesy fills, melodic and harmonized lines.

When James plays a solo, he has a lot better tone and feel than Hammett. Hammett can make a 25K rig sound like shit.

When you listen to live recordings Hammett can't keep up with James. James sounds tight as hell but Hammett is struggling a lot. Not all the time though.

I think Kirk had some pretty cool ideas in '84 but still I don't find his lead work anything special. A lot of riffs that James has written are a lot more technically challenging than any solo that Hammett has played.
I think Kirk's solos are easy but riffs like in Disposable Heroes incredibly hard.

I don't know why James didn't focused more on lead playing because he has all the talent.

[Evol]

Dave's a great rhythm player and a decent lead player, but if you think he can keep up with Marty Friedman or Chris Poland you're high on glue. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you need some ear training.

My ears are just fine,thank you. Rude comments aside,technically it is your opinion,but you sort of proved my point here by acknowledging that Dave is a "decent" lead player,he HAS the ability he just chooses to focus on singing/songwriting and rhythm. He doesn't not play lead much because he sucks at it,which I believe was the OP's point.And he sure isn't afraid to stand on stage and rip it up with while Marty plays rhythm,so,uhm,yah,...

Now,to address your misguided comments about his ability to keep up with Poland or Freidman,well,this gets right back into the prick waving cock fight I mentioned earlier.

I guess it depends on how you judge what makes a player "better" than another. Is it notes per second? Whammy technique? Ability to play a billion scales?

To me it's WHAT you play....does it fit the song? In Dave's case,hell fucking yah it does,it's brutal shit,it's angry,intense and in your face. He said it himself,that he plays out of hate and Marty plays out of love. Neither one would sound right playing the others parts,they are not interchangeable as lead guitar players. Dave doesn't have the techniques Marty does to play his stuff,and Marty would sound too "prissy" playing Dave's parts.

Put it this way,it's like comparing Satriani to Kerry King
Both well respected lead guitar players in their styles of music,would either one sound worth a crap in the others band? I mean imagine Joe playing Angel of Death or Kerry playing Always with you...

Neither one of them is "better" than the other,but within their own styles they shine.

[jgcable]

Hetfield is better player than Hammett

I think that Hetfield is a great lead vocalist/guitar player but he isn't as good of a lead player a Hammett is.

Thats the one thing that strikes me weird regarding guitar players opinions of Hammett. I think he is actually quite good and has written a ton of very memorable solos. Especially the solos on MOP unless you are telling me that James wrote and played those.

I guess there is a DOUBLE STANDARD in regards to those 2 guys too. Kirk seems to catch a world of shit from everybody yet James is the one with the up and down career and drug problems.
Kirk has stayed pretty consistant throughout all the years. Thats pretty tough in this business.

[Endrik]

Hetfield is better player than Hammett

[jgcable]

Bump for truth!


Is there a double standard for women lead guitar players? Yes. So what? It's the same in any male dominated profession or sport - "Wow,she's pretty good,for a girl" It's like the bar gets lowered,and is it fair? No,of course not.

Why don't you see more women in metal playing lead? Well it's a testosterone laced,if I may quote Carlin -- "Dick waving prick fight". It's a boy's playground and I can't imagine too many women that want to be put down in that manner,having the bar lowered just cuz they have wicked bewbs and all.And to those that do,god bless em! I don't think they should be insulted by lowering the bar to compare them to men.

As far as if they were to shred as good as Yngwie then they would get a record deal,....eh,shred is dead,has been for years,don't think it's ever coming back,so uhm,yah... we've got all the prick waving cock fighters who only showed up to play as fast as possible and making "music" without any real substance to blame for that.It was fun while it lasted.I'll take good songs over 8 million meedlee notes a second anyday.

And lord knows,we have PLENTY of excellent female songwriters and singers.

Now saying that people who choose to play rhythm only do so because they suck at lead,pffft...I got 2 words :

Dave Mustaine

^^^^^^^^^ There's a player who can rip alot of guys heads clear off playing lead and can definitely keep up with the lead players in his band.

So I call on that entire statement. Oh yah,and how many guys you see play air guitar to Holy Wars....do they skip all the bad ass rhythms? :ROTF:

Go see a Megadeth show and watch the crowd ,you'll see exactly what I mean

I agree with some of your comments but not the one about Dave Mustaine.
#1. He is not that good of a lead guitar player (although he is a great rhythm player)
#2. Every lead guitar player that has ever been in Megadeth has been a better soloist than Dave. Thats why he plays rhythm.

James Hetfield is a great rhythm player and so is Malcolm Young. Neither of them are better than the lead guitar players in their respective bands.
I am sure that when Malcolm and Angus started playing as kids it was obvious who the better soloist was from the beginning and thus.... Angus Young was created!!! I am pretty positive that Malcolm probably wanted to be the lead player back when they were first learning.
Every one of the kids that I teach would love to be a lead player.
I feel its my personal responsibility to keep teaching young players how to play solos and be creative. Its the single most expressive way to play a guitar.

[jgcable]

So you played that guitar I dont remember from that song? Cool. Finalist huh? So you must be good cause you've turned it into something big Jimmy Page. I am not impressed by rude opinions even if they have a resume or claim one.

Can we get back to the subject, or do you want to continue to hijack this thread for your personal gloating/slash promotion?

Back to the subject please

Wow.. I guess you told me.

[lerxstcat]

Dave's a great rhythm player and a decent lead player, but if you think he can keep up with Marty Friedman or Chris Poland you're high on glue. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you need some ear training.