The DOUBLE STANDARD

[Endrik]

+ bazillion xeno

[Newc]

The guitar is not a phallic symbol - if it were this would be predominantly a bassist's board, not a guitarist's board.

I'd say the large reason you don't find as many female Metal guitarists/shredders/virtuoso types is because it generally has no emotion - it's all masturbatory self-gratification, and males use technical ability as a substitute for comparing penises or sexual ability/proficiency/conquests.

Women are, by design, more emotional than men, meaning they gravitate towards melody and feeling than technique in music than men do. That's why you find them playing Country, Folk, Blues, and other less-technically-demanding styles as compared to Classical and other Theory-laden styles.

Bass is more about the groove than the riffs, and women can hit the groove with a bass more easily than a guitar.

Plus when slung low enough it tends to resonate nicely through a certain ideal part of the human body.

As for female guitarists getting tons of raves from male guitarists for being able to pull off a "simple" Pentatonic solo while men get yawned off the stage for not shredding, it goes back to the two basic desires of Men: they want to bang the chick, and they have bigger balls than the other guy.

In other words, it's base ignorance.

[Robotechnology]

It's not about shred, it's about bending in tune and about not making me cringe when I hear their vibrato. Lots of GUYS have problems with these 2 ESSENTIAL SKILLS but, less than 10 women that I'm aware of in the WORLD don't.

Also, I forgot to mention Jennifer Batten (sorry!). One other great female, not normally heard of is:

Carina Alfie

http://www.alfiecarina.com.ar/

Sometimes her vibrato makes me cringe though but, not all the time.

I am also only considering electric guitarists regarding my comments. There are A LOT of VIRTUOSO female acoustic guitarists and bending and vibrato don't apply very much to half of them.

Anybody else have anybody for me to listen to?

[jgcable]

Again... great points by all but I am talking about female guitar players in the caliber of Vai, Gilbert, Malmsteen, Lynch, Macalpine, Roth...

How could Orianthi even be mentioned in the same sentence or share the same stage as Carlos Santana when a "feel" player like Tony Macalpine has to play keyboards for Steve Vai.
Thats a double standard by bros.

What I am really talking about is a guitarists opinion of club players. An average female soloist gets mad props just because she has the courage (or the rarity) of playing lead guitar. The male.. on the other hand.. has to be of the highest caliber to get great reviews by other guitar players.

[Sukisyn]

As for female guitarists getting tons of raves from male guitarists for being able to pull off a "simple" Pentatonic solo while men get yawned off the stage for not shredding, it goes back to the two basic desires of Men: they want to bang the chick, and they have bigger balls than the other guy.

In other words, it's base ignorance.

I think this pretty much sums up my take on this question...

[zeegler]

Women prefer to talk on the phone, watch Oprah, and go shopping, than do something creative like play guitar. I completely disagree that women are more creative than men. Historically speaking, visual art, architecture, music, literature, technology, etc, was pretty much all produced by men, and not women. That hasn't changed much even to this day.

[Endrik]

What I am really talking about is a guitarists opinion of club players. An average female soloist gets mad props just because she has the courage (or the rarity) of playing lead guitar. The male.. on the other hand.. has to be of the highest caliber to get great reviews by other guitar players.

and how many guitar players are in the club? 2% maybe.
who cares what they think... music is not about impressing other musicians... it's about doing whatever you want to do, most people care less how well some dude or chick can shred... musical expression counts.... how well a guitarist can play melodies so the people could hum it or how well he/she makes one note scream to give chills to the people.

only non-pro players go to concerts to check out other players' chops.
you know pro players and pro producers don't give a shit how well some dude can shred because the pro players can do that shit anyway and producers want to make music not masturbation.

I've heard that Steve Vai refuses to get new shredders under his label, he is sick and tired of it and finds it boring. The only shredders he has are old school, the new musicians he has are FAR FAR away from metal shredding.

There was this guitar competition where Steve Lukather, Satch and other dudes like that were the judges. The craziest shredders there were on the last place, the ones who got awards and stuff were very different... some dude was with acoustic guitar, some dude did some weird UFO sounds and was sloppy but he had it's own thing going on, some dude rarely played any solos.

I'm a guitar player and I'm impressed a lot more of musicians who play on stadiums no matter how fast or slow than the shredders who play in clubs.

[danastas]

I don't know how this became shredders versus melodies. I'm not sure John was saying that.

But, regardless, I get bored by both shredding and simple blues riffs as well. The truth is I was never comfortable watching SRV and the like do their thing. I don't know why. Much more impressed by other guys, I always liked Satch since he was good at blending it all into something unusual.

That being said, this woman is very young. She has a LOT of time to do her own thing and breakout.

[hippietim]

I don't know how this became shredders versus melodies. I'm not sure John was saying that.

But, regardless, I get bored by both shredding and simple blues riffs as well. The truth is I was never comfortable watching SRV and the like do their thing. I don't know why. Much more impressed by other guys, I always liked Satch since he was good at blending it all into something unusual.

That being said, this woman is very young. She has a LOT of time to do her own thing and breakout.

Satch? He's the Ted Nugent of shredders. Satch songs are soooooooooo boring and the changes he solos over are less interesting than a 12-bar blues. His next album should be called "Gimme an A".

[hippietim]

I could never figure out why there aren't more women players.

Because women can get dates.

[Norton]

I agree with jgcable.Most of the female players play nothing but the same ol' boring stuff.And they're credited just because ,some people think they're "hot".And since,people worship George Lynch for his playing,not for his muscles,I don't think it should be this way.

[charvelguy]

Because women can get dates.

damn good point.:ROTF:

[jgcable]

damn good point.:ROTF:

Good old Hippietim. Nails it again.

Seriously though.... Endrik mentioned the fact that 2% of the people in the club are players so who cares. He also mentioned that pro players do not go to clubs to critique other pro players.

I call WRONG on both counts.

I am asking this question to other guitar players. It is something that has always interested me. I could care less what the crowd thinks. I have been to shows where the local hack who couldn't even tune his guitar has won battle of the bands because the crowd loved him and the out of town guitar virtuoso went home in last place because nobody knew who he was. The crowd are all idiots. I have done enough shows to know that most of the people in the crowd have no sense of good guitar playing.
What the local club crowd likes.. and what is actually great guitar playing.. is 2 completely different things.
This is why I am asking the double standard question to other GUITAR PLAYERS.
Now.. onto your statement that pro's don't go see local talent or other pro's play and that they don't mentally critique that persons playing.
That couldn't be farther from the truth.
The true pro guitarist (student of the guitar) is constantly looking over his shoulder and seeking out the competition. Why??? Well for one thing you always need to see what style is selling in the current climate. Also.. most pro's are human musical sponges and take anything and everything they can from everything they hear. The journey to becoming better never ends for a pro. Its important to know what other players are doing and what other players are playing. In the business world its called networking. Executives do it. Guitar players do it.

I don't know where the focus on shredders vs non shredders came onboard. I am talking about great lead guitar playing and how a women can be a marginal player and be considered great by other guitar players and a guy needs to be friggin Malmsteen.
Is it because we know that there aren't alot of women soloists so we feel we should be nice?
Whats so nice about telling somebody they are incredible when they actually aren't? Thats what the crowd is for. They don't know their ass from a pentatonic scale anyway.
My feelings are that when we are talking guitar player to guitar player we should forget the gender or the style of playing and call is as we hear it.
Most players that suck know that they do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Criticism is a good thing.
Would I be helping any of my students by telling them that they are incredible when they aren't?
Most soloists have HUGE dreams and goals in regards to playing.
I call them the over-achievers of guitarists.
I can spot a soloist or a potential soloist in a second. I would guess that many of us can. If you are one.. you can spot another one.

Here is some guy talk.

I happen to think that Jewel is an incredible guitar player. Why??
Because she is so smoking hot. Thats why.
I think that Jennifer Batten is an incredible guitar player too. Why?
Because she is an incredible guitar player. Thats why.

[atilla]

JG, you've got some good points, but...

The true pro guitarist (student of the guitar) is constantly looking over his shoulder and seeking out the competition. is not one of them. I rarely go to a club unless I have a gig. I see enough other bands that way, and very few local guitarists impress me. Sometimes, I'll hear something cool that a band is doing at the rehearsal studios and I'll give it a listen.

But really, my time is better spent working on my own chops or taking care of non music-related stuff rather than listening to local bands.

If that works for you, no problem. We all have different priorities and approaches. But I think it's too broad a generalization to say everyone who wants to accomplish X MUST do Y.

But I feel like I've gone off from the original topic. I've only gigged with a female guitarist once, and since it was a punk band, nobody was calling her the next coming of Dimebag or anything!

[xenophobe]

What I am really talking about is a guitarists opinion of club players. An average female soloist gets mad props just because she has the courage (or the rarity) of playing lead guitar. The male.. on the other hand.. has to be of the highest caliber to get great reviews by other guitar players.

If you throw away musicianship out the window, on the merits of pure technical skill, you're right. Most girls who are that talented choose to play more refined and more respectable music than metal, and actually make decent money playing in a symphony or teaching than playing in a metal band.

And your pure criticism of females not being good enough for you is why more girls don't play. They're basically shunned from the guitar world and discouraged. So you're helping to fulfill your own prophecy by your position.

Encourage more girls to play guitar, and you'll have more girls playing better. Keep complaining on why they can't shred like your favorite wank master, and all you'll do is turn them away from playing.

If you look at the average male shredder, can you blame women for not trying to become metal heroes?

Anyways, you sound really bitter. Perhaps you should have a few long sessions with a qualified therapist.