The DOUBLE STANDARD

[jgcable]

I believe there is a double standard when fellow shredders and soloists compare women and men as shredders or soloists.
It seems to me that a women only needs to be able to solo at all to be considered good but a man has to be a friggin virtuoso in order to get any props.
Technically...
Women should be better guitar players than men. They are generally more creative and they generally have better hands and fingers for it.

There are exceptions of course. Many of them actually. What I am talking about is the average club players. Take a girl for example that you see in a local club in a metal band. Say she can play the basic Ace Frehely type pentatonic scales. She is usually considered great. She can play the basic.. and I mean basic blues riffs and be considered incredible.
Take that same scenario and put a guy in the band and he has to be friggin Steve Vai or Stevie Ray Vaughan in order to get any positive comments from other guitar players.

Since most of us are guitar players... what do you think?

[danastas]

well, think of it this way, a ton more men play guitar than women. in the music school up here in Rochester, it's like 9 to 1.

[jgcable]

well, think of it this way, a ton more men play guitar than women. in the music school up here in Rochester, it's like 9 to 1.

Why is that?? I could never figure out why there aren't more women players.
Around here there are alot more women bass players than guitar players which again doesn't make sense. Bass players usually have bigger more powerful hands and fingers. Why would girls be drawn to bass instead of guitar???
It just doesn't make sense to me.

[skorb]

ah, there's plenty of girl players, but not in metal or hard rock so much. they usually play folk and country and alternative stuff. and usually they play just rhythm guitar.

I don't know about others, but I think part of my ability on guitar (meaning ability to learn and advance) had to do with the size of my hands, they are pretty large. maybe that discourages some girls early on in life?

[danastas]

The answer is easy and obvious: some men suffer from small schlong, and a guitar is a good prosthetic.

Most women are over the lack thereof at some point in their teens. According to freud.

[charvelguy]

I think the environment has been intimidating to a degree to women in a stand alone sense, which is why so many women take up bass instead.
Men are natually more aggresive on the whole IMO.
I dig some women bass playing if it is solid and in the groove and pocket.

I think you have a valid point.. but I also think that manufacturers as well as players are trying to make the environment more encouraging to women guitarists as players. If you highlight an above competent female player..what better way than for a manufacturer to open the doors for other players who are willing to challenge the male dominated genres and therefore opening up a while new market of buyers. I think in part its about bucks, in part it is also about making the playing of guitar more reachable and appealing to female players. Believe it or not John, not everybody wants to shred and some people kinda think of it as a unnecessary form musical of expression and there are listeners out there who feel the same, hence the diversity in the genres and their respective popularity.. don't you think?

[charvelguy]

Not to mention, the whole mentality of shred in the 80's and early 90's portrayed mostly very attractive looking women and shapes bending over in stocking, anklets and heels around guys shredding. If that doesn't typecast a role which some women would rather disassociate themselves with because it is sexist public exploitation and not talent oriented I don't know what is..it be like the whole genre was hypothetically female domintated and the videos had men being paraded around on a leash in leather diapers or crawling on their knees and worshipping their feet.. etc..(I think you get the picture)

Not that I don't have anything against sexist typecasting on the whole..I used to like seeing women in heels and stockings back then (and now its not the typical norm for wear to a club)and such as it was it induced a sexist role by todays standards for the genre and a mentality that is probably challenging to break thru. Women want to be recognized as women with talents and not exploited as objects. Is the bar lower? hmm, probably, maybe its just a different set of genres being recognized other than shred.

[danastas]

Not to mention, the whole mentality of shred in the 80's and early 90's portrayed mostly very attractive looking women and shapes bending over in stocking, anklets and heels around guys shredding. If that doesn't typecast a role which some women would rather disassociate themselves with because it is sexist public exploitation and not talent oriented I don't know what is..it be like the whole genre was hypothetically female domintated and the videos had men being paraded around on a leash in leather diapers or crawling on their knees and worshipping their feet.. etc..(I think you get the picture)

Not that I don't have anything against sexist typecasting on the whole..I used to like seeing women in heels and stockings and such but it induced a sexist role for the genre and a metality that is probably challenging to break thru.

There's nothing like hearing your 9 year old niece since the lyrics to an AC/DC song her older brother is playing...

Given the Dog a Done. I loved it then, I love it now, but man, not looking forward to the day I have to explain it to my daughter (she's 1 yr old now). I think I'd rather ban ACDC than have that conversation. Or pretend it's about milkbone dog biscuits.

[Robotechnology]

I agree with you John.

Here are 3 that I feel are great guitarists (given a level playing field--judged EQUALLY with men):

Chelsea Constable
Nori Bucci
Lori Lindstruth

There are another 2 or 3 out there but, I have to dig up my internet favorites and search for their names.

[AlexL]

Lita Ford always said that she wanted to be considered a good guitarist, not a good female guitarist.

- E.

[Robert Burns]

Jennifer Batten used to say that she ran into allot of resistance in the
early 80's.. guys would say .."you should just be happy to be my girlfriend,instead of trying to stand out"... You know...that old caveman
attitude. Besides guys hate it if a chick can be better at what we believe
is OUR domain. Golf...baseball...basketball..it pisses off 80% of men who
get owned by a chick in "our specialty.

[dg]

Women have the capability to be just as good as any man at any musical instrument, but the shred & metal guitar arena is a pretty sexist and ego-driven place. It requires a certain cocky "look at me" personality that most women don't have or at least don't flaunt. I have two female cousins who play the cello & the violin and are awesome. I have no doubt at all that if they had put in the same hours & dedication on the guitar they'd easily be shredding up a storm. For their trouble, they'd probably still end up just being judged by their looks anyway, so I'm glad they play the instruments they do.

[jgcable]

Good points all but....if we agree that there is a VERY small percentage of chick metal shredders.. and girls absolutely have the ability to shred.. AND most of us had or have dreams of making it big... then.. why aren't there more female versions of Vai, Gilbert, Malmsteen and Petrucci?? It seems to me that the odds would be WAY in their favor of getting a record deal. Wouldn;t you think?

[charvelguy]

I don't believe even Batten has particpated or been asked to play on a G3 tour. Even Yngwie went thru a period of where he was being dropped by labels every year or two. I don't know..maybe in part, they don't want to follow in the footsteps of a man in order to walk over him. Look at role models are going back to early electric days.. you have all male role models...Django, Christian, C. Berry, T-Bone, BB, the other Kings, Les Paul etc...
Getting signed, well thats one thing, its who you are signed to that is the other. Most guitarists are not signed simply for playing guitar, they write songs that have a marketable niche and have a vocal ability that is as strong or stronger than their ability to play. Well lets see.. there's Bonnie Raitt. Nothing wrong with Bonnie Raitt at all.. great slide/blues player.

Look at famous classical composers..all men. Mozart had a sister that was reputed to be very gifted on a prodigy level as well...but she was overshadowed by her brother.. she taught, got married, had kids.

So a female shredder today will likely have predominantly male influences.
I think they're picking them younger and grooming them for a future where they will be recognized on their own as players.

[xenophobe]

Why does a player "have to be a virtuoso" to be enjoyed? I understand what you're trying to get across, about 'shredding' or 'soloing', but the girls playing guitars is a completely different world when comparing why men have to shred.

Most girls don't have the need to wank on a guitar. It's a ego thing. The reason guys have to shred is to outdo or impress each other. Women are more true musicians, IMO. They usually just play and don't have to try to be overly unique or shredding just to enjoy playing.

Besides, most of the girls who would 'shred' on a guitar are more likely to be playing a classy instrument like piano, violin or cello.

If you listen to Orianthi in this live clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7leWjpyBx5s

She's playing tastefully, has decent tone, is enjoying herself and overall it sounds good.

What's the point of you repetitively saying how it's not impressive, or that chicks suck or whatever... You sound bitter and need to learn how to appreciate music, even if it isn't techo-fabulous, ground breaking or mindblowingly unique. Your attitude is typically why girls don't get into playing guitar. Why are they supposed to impress you? Music isn't just a display of technical skill to confuse other musicians.

If you want musician's music, listen to some Spawn of Possession, Necrophagist, Psycroptic or whatever... and compare your skills to that.

Funny how you seem to be so threatened by a decent looking girl who can play, and you can only shut them out because they don't rip well enough for you. That makes you as superficial as the guys who only like her because she's hot or not. :p