The DOUBLE STANDARD

[diablomozart]

ya know...i find this whole thread absolutely hilarious...and the reasoning is this...music is an artform of which everyone will have their own opinion of who's better, what makes a great solo, etc...so...instead of typing long-winded responses and arguing...how about everyone agree to disagree and go play guitar?...lol...d.m.

[charvelguy]

Ya know.. it gets really bad when a person gets judged and put down and their playing hasn't even been heard. Its almost more like about having the last word.. hey, I'm winning! What did I win?..

...???


Nada.

[Robert Burns]

Yep. It actually pissed me off when Yngwie would claim he didn't listen to other guitar players. Bullshit.
Well.. maybe he didn't listen to them but I am sure he was totally aware of them. Especially the ones that were mentioned in the same sentences as him.
With that said.. Yngwie would be considered an incredible guitar player. At least he is to me.

****************************
I remember him going on, and on about Ritchie Blackmoor, his idol growing up! He spent thousands of hours listening to Deep Purple.

[Robert Burns]

I agree with some of your comments but not the one about Dave Mustaine.
#1. He is not that good of a lead guitar player (although he is a great rhythm player)
#2. Every lead guitar player that has ever been in Megadeth has been a better soloist than Dave. Thats why he plays rhythm.

James Hetfield is a great rhythm player and so is Malcolm Young. Neither of them are better than the lead guitar players in their respective bands.
I am sure that when Malcolm and Angus started playing as kids it was obvious who the better soloist was from the beginning and thus.... Angus Young was created!!! I am pretty positive that Malcolm probably wanted to be the lead player back when they were first learning.
Every one of the kids that I teach would love to be a lead player.
I feel its my personal responsibility to keep teaching young players how to play solos and be creative. Its the single most expressive way to play a guitar.

**************************This has to be true, cause every kid
that "shreds" at all the GC's around the country, have NO Rhythm.
Kids seem to learn how to sweep pick first... but never spend any time
with a metronome!

[toejam]

no one wins anything if you choose to ejaculate all over your fretboard, other than you having a dirty, sticky fretboard.

Is that better than lemon oil, though? :ROTF:

[Evol]

Is that better than lemon oil, though? :ROTF:

I can't be certain,but I'm pretty sure lemon oil would smell better at least.

[jgcable]

Check out Dave murdering the fast solo from Cemetary Gates here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hiH_yDpyRDU

Marty is an insane player, great phrasing and a beautiful vibrato. Picks like a water buffalo, awesome.

Wow.. was I wrong about Dave. He is a friggin great lead guitar player. :ROTF:
Its a good thing I didn't hear that abortion of a guitar solo when I was deciding to take up guitar.. because I wouldn't have.
That is a classic example of a rhythm guitar player trying to play lead.
There is no way in hell that anybody here could defend that horrible solo playing.
THE DEFENSE RESTS.

[Evol]

Wow.. was I wrong about Dave. He is a friggin great lead guitar player. :ROTF:
Its a good thing I didn't hear that abortion of a guitar solo when I was deciding to take up guitar.. because I wouldn't have.
That is a classic example of a rhythm guitar player trying to play lead.
There is no way in hell that anybody here could defend that horrible solo playing.
THE DEFENSE RESTS.

I'll defend it. I guess noone has ever made mistakes while playing live eh? Especially when it was a song that wasn't yours? Pssh,cmon,I've seen the dude play flawlessly in concert doing his own stuff,so it makes no sense to judge someone by one bad night.

Hell I've seen alot of the world's greatest guitar players screw up,I saw Black Sabbath once,and Tony TOTALLY screwed up Iron Man,I mean IRON MAN....and he knew he was messing up so bad,he would stop and laugh at the crowd.But does he suck because of that? Hell no!

There's a reason DT chose Dave to come and play the solo with them,and I highly doubt it was because of his "horrible solo playing".Or that he is just a "rhythm" guitar player.Nevermind that he was the original lead guitar player in Metallica,well,back when they played Metal that is.Not too bad for a just a rhythm guitar player with such horrible solo playing to be selected to come on stage with DT and play a tribute to Dime.

Listen to the albums,watch the shows,they speak for themselves.

But it sounds like to me you are one of those people who must never have made mistakes or had a bad night.Wow,that's pretty cool.

Oh,and trying to put down one of the most succesful metal guitarists to ever live,....wow,uhm,nice....you must be pretty awesome...

Let's see :

Millions of fans,millions of albums sold,headlining tours all over the world,a generation of metal heads influenced,well respected by his fellow musicians

Or...

The opinion of some pompous,know-it-all,wanna be anonymous internet guitarists who seem to think they are somehow "better" for a multitude of reasons,but in reality all they can do is talk themselves up and show lack of class and character while doing so,congratulations to you guys that think you are somehow better,you are the 1% of the crowd I was talking about earlier.


Forgive me,but I'll take the side of the guy who has been creating some of the best metal music for the last 20+ years and not the guys with the itchiest case of Penis envy I have ever heard of.

[RacerX]

What is this, Bash JGCable Week?

[jgcable]

I'll defend it. I guess noone has ever made mistakes while playing live eh? Especially when it was a song that wasn't yours? Pssh,cmon,I've seen the dude play flawlessly in concert doing his own stuff,so it makes no sense to judge someone by one bad night.

Hell I've seen alot of the world's greatest guitar players screw up,I saw Black Sabbath once,and Tony TOTALLY screwed up Iron Man,I mean IRON MAN....and he knew he was messing up so bad,he would stop and laugh at the crowd.But does he suck because of that? Hell no!

There's a reason DT chose Dave to come and play the solo with them,and I highly doubt it was because of his "horrible solo playing".Or that he is just a "rhythm" guitar player.Nevermind that he was the original lead guitar player in Metallica,well,back when they played Metal that is.Not too bad for a just a rhythm guitar player with such horrible solo playing to be selected to come on stage with DT and play a tribute to Dime.

Listen to the albums,watch the shows,they speak for themselves.

But it sounds like to me you are one of those people who must never have made mistakes or had a bad night.Wow,that's pretty cool.

Oh,and trying to put down one of the most succesful metal guitarists to ever live,....wow,uhm,nice....you must be pretty awesome...

Let's see :

Millions of fans,millions of albums sold,headlining tours all over the world,a generation of metal heads influenced,well respected by his fellow musicians

Or...

The opinion of some pompous,know-it-all,wanna be anonymous internet guitarists who seem to think they are somehow "better" for a multitude of reasons,but in reality all they can do is talk themselves up and show lack of class and character while doing so,congratulations to you guys that think you are somehow better,you are the 1% of the crowd I was talking about earlier.


Forgive me,but I'll take the side of the guy who has been creating some of the best metal music for the last 20+ years and not the guys with the itchiest case of Penis envy I have ever heard of.

Dude.. c'mon... everybody makes mistakes?? Are you kidding me? That was horrible. If I didn't know better I would think it was one of those fake clips that makes a good player sound horrible.
Frankly.. I don't give a rats ass if you think I am a good player or not or whether or not I am jealous or envious or whatever.
The Mustaine Cemetary Gates solo clip is just aweful. It totally proves my point.

Here is one thing that has always pissed me off about the music business.

I hate getting bashed when I call out a famous player who is a friggin hack soloist. For some reason, people feel compelled to use the
"what have you done", or "your jealous", or "how many records have you sold" to justify their opinion instead of basing it purely on the playing.

I have listened to tons of absolutely amazing guitarists on You Tube who will never make it out of their bedrooms. Some of these players are the best I have ever heard in my entire life. I hope they never make a comment regarding a famous hack soloist because they will be subjected to the same crap responses that I mentioned earlier.


Thats the nice thing about drag racing. There is no interpretation when you win or lose a race. You either win.. or you lose.

Why can't it be like that when we listen to a clip like the Mustaine/Cemetary Gates clip. Any "real" guitar player could tell you in an instant that Mustaine's solo was disgusting. I am not sure if a player could cram more incorrect notes or phrases into one of the most famous and best metal guitar solo's in history.
I would think that every Pantera fan knows that entire solo note for note.
It reminds me of the solo in Master of Puppets. It has its melodic phrases that everybody can hum every note of but it also has the ripping shred parts that again.. everybody knows every note.
Dave missed just about every one of those great notes. Good thing he plays rhythm guitar. Bar chords are pretty easy.

[toejam]

How come it says Dimebag Darrell Williams at the end?!? His last name is Abbott.

[jgcable]

What is this, Bash JGCable Week?

Yea.. it is Ron.

Sad thing is that most of these bashers are still trying to figure out how to hold their pick.

I couldn't begin to tell you how many of these talkers do a great job of talking but they don't walk to good.

I guess I should be thankful though. They always made great roadies and guitar techs.

[jgcable]

How come it says Dimebag Darrell Williams at the end?!? His last name is Abbott.

I have the answer to that.

When they heard Dave's guitar solo they decided that it was closer to a version of an Andy Williams Christmas album than a Dimebag solo.

Most of you probably didn't know that Andy Williams and Dimebag were related.

[Evol]

Dude.. c'mon... everybody makes mistakes?? Are you kidding me? That was horrible. If I didn't know better I would think it was one of those fake clips that makes a good player sound horrible.
Frankly.. I don't give a rats ass if you think I am a good player or not or whether or not I am jealous or envious or whatever.
The Mustaine Cemetary Gates solo clip is just aweful. It totally proves my point.

I agree that it sounded bad,I disagree that one bad performance should "prove your point" that he cannot play lead.What about all the good performances he's had? What about the timeless metal songs he's written and yes played lead on that have influenced so many? You mean none of that means anything because of one solo on a guest appearance playing a song that isn't even his????

Have you ever seen Megadeth live?

I never said you weren't a good player,I have no idea,I've never heard you play,I was being sarcastic due to your attitude about Dave.That it must be very nice to have never had a bad night,or totally blow a solo,because I tell you what I've NEVER EVER met someone who hasn't.

I know I sure as hell don't make sweeping all encompassing judgements on someones ability by one performance.

I believe your original point was that every guitar player wanted to be a soloist. Talk about a blanket statement,I give you one real example ,and you decide to cut him to shreds ...here's a man,who is the ex-lead guitar player for one of the biggest metal bands in the world,who does have ablility to play leads and does so on the stuff that he fits it for and has his own style at that,but prefers to play MOSTLY rhythm. But he can do both and has demonstrated that for years,whether you don't think his technique is as good as Marty,or his scales are limited or whatever,the fact remains,he CAN do it,and does so at every show they play,and millions of people love it. So,uhm,yah....there ya go.

Here is one thing that has always pissed me off about the music business.

I hate getting bashed when I call out a famous player who is a friggin hack soloist. For some reason, people feel compelled to use the
"what have you done", or "your jealous", or "how many records have you sold" to justify their opinion instead of basing it purely on the playing.

I have listened to tons of absolutely amazing guitarists on You Tube who will never make it out of their bedrooms. Some of these players are the best I have ever heard in my entire life. I hope they never make a comment regarding a famous hack soloist because they will be subjected to the same crap responses that I mentioned earlier.

Not sure what this has to do with the music business,calling out a famous player on an internet message board,but ok...

You seem to be justifying your opinion on one bad performance,since it's a repeated theme in this post,so does that make you any better? And if so ,how?

Thats the nice thing about drag racing. There is no interpretation when you win or lose a race. You either win.. or you lose.

Ugh. Here's the problem kiddo's... I like to call it LGS -- Lead Guitarist Syndrome... now ,I'm not sure when all this came about,although I suspect it had something to do in part with the movie "Crossroads". That everything is a contest,it's all about wagging your pricks around and dick-slapping each other with them. WTF? I mean how do you win at playing guitar? It's this whole attitude of I'm better,I'm faster,I know more theory,I can tap ,I can play with my scrotum,etc...

Music is about being creative and pleasing the audience,not pleasing other musicians.Well,I guess that's what prog-rock is for (I kid ,I kid)

And this kinda thing is why shred and lead guitar playing have been out of modern music for quite some time. When the hell was music about any one instrument anyhow? Why do "lead" guitar players (kind of silly since we all play MOSTLY rhythm)think they are the main attraction and that the audience is there to just hear them? If so,then just go solo,stand up there and wank away. No,you know what happens in most situations,people are ignoring you during your solos,they are talking,playing grab ass,going to get drinks,etc...most people are there to see the BAND,not you,not your drummer,not your bass player,and hear your songs.

These are the same people that could give a shit less how many notes per second you can play with your pubes or whatever,what scale of the week you've learned and how gnarly your tone is with your brand new boutique butt fuzz stomp box...

They are music lovers,fans,and they are the majority,....if you don't like that fine,then don't bitch about it,go to GIT or something.

Why can't it be like that when we listen to a clip like the Mustaine/Cemetary Gates clip. Any "real" guitar player could tell you in an instant that Mustaine's solo was disgusting. I am not sure if a player could cram more incorrect notes or phrases into one of the most famous and best metal guitar solo's in history.
I would think that every Pantera fan knows that entire solo note for note.
It reminds me of the solo in Master of Puppets. It has its melodic phrases that everybody can hum every note of but it also has the ripping shred parts that again.. everybody knows every note.

I wasn't going to bring this up out of respect for Dime,but somehow I don't think he would care...

I've personally seen him fuck this solo up live in Corpus Christi Tx. The last night of their tour with Machine Head he blew it big time,but you know what he kept fucking going...im not sure what happened if his guitar went out of tune or he was in the wrong key,or too drunk...it wasn't the only song he fucked up that night,after all they TP'd the whole stage while naked,and had Machine head running out messing with them the whole show.

But so what? If someone had a vid of that and posted if,would Dime suck all of a sudden? I think not.

Dave missed just about every one of those great notes.

I'm fairly certain Dave was not attempting to play Dime's part,only an interpretation,obviously what he did play didn't come out sounding too well,but he wasn't going to play it note for note.

Good thing he plays rhythm guitar.

So I take it you've never seen Megadeth live,or heard ANY of the albums where he plays lead? Or old footage of Metallica where he plays lead? Hmm,the crowd seems to love his stuff when he rips it up,would you be one of those people in the back with YOUR arms folded? Talking about how much better you could do it?

Bar chords are pretty easy.

Wow.If you think Megadeth's rhythm guitar is so easy to play,you must be a guitar god.


You know what else is easy? Being humble.

[charvelguy]

"I know I sure as hell don't make sweeping all encompassing judgements on someones ability by one performance."

... or none, which says alot about attitude(s)