Masters of the whammy bar

[VitaminG]

but the amount of albums Kerry King has sold is still no reflection on his mastery (or lack thereof) with the whammy bar.

disregarding any "apples v. oranges" arguments, by your reckoning, Eric Clapton would be better with the tremolo arm than Jeff Beck. I think that's a fair comparison. They play a similar style of music, but Clapton has sold a lot more albums than Beck. Therefore you can't question Clapton's "mastery" of the whammy bar over Beck. Right?

[Jonttu]

...Steve vai, who has the most control over an electric guitar than maybe anone on the planet..

There's no doubt about it, he is the best!

[excon]

but the amount of albums Kerry King has sold is still no reflection on his mastery (or lack thereof) with the whammy bar.

disregarding any "apples v. oranges" arguments, by your reckoning, Eric Clapton would be better with the tremolo arm than Jeff Beck. I think that's a fair comparison. They play a similar style of music, but Clapton has sold a lot more albums than Beck. Therefore you can't question Clapton's "mastery" of the whammy bar over Beck. Right?

I commented on Kerry King’s use of the trem in posts #84, 88, and 96. In addition to these comments, his overall success further confirms it.

I’m a big fan of Clapton’s early work.“Disraely Gears” and “Blind Faith” are some of my favorite classic rock albums, but I’m pretty sure he used Tunomatic Gibsons in those early days. I think he was using Blacky by the time “461 Ocean Boulevard” was released, but after that is when I start losing interest. Give me some examples of his best trem use. I can’t think of any offhand. I know he was great with a slide especially on "Layla".

I’m sorry to say it, but besides the Rod Stewart stuff I’m not that familiar with Jeff Beck's work. I’ve read about how good “Truth, Beck-ola, and Blow By Blow” are, but I never got them. I assume this is where his best work is. Somebody let me know.

[atomic charvel guy]

There and Back is Beck's best guitar album in my book. By far. It's Blow by Blow added up a notch.

[VitaminG]

check out Where Were You off Beck's Guitar Shop album, and hear him playing melodies with the bar. Not just scooping into notes, or pulling on the bar to bend up to a single note, but playing whole melody lines with it.

Of course, he hasn't sold like Slayer, so make of his mastery what you will....

[atomic charvel guy]

The less you sell, the better the players it always comes out to. look at Stanley Clark, I could listen to him play bass by himself all day with nothing else and I'm not a huge fan of listening to bass only. Teen Girls in middle America won't be storming the record stores anytime soon for his compilation disc-lol

[lerxstcat]

Give me some examples of his best trem use. I can’t think of any offhand. I know he was great with a slide especially on "Layla".

Actually, Duane Allman played the famous slide guitar on "Layla"! :ROTF:

The point was that if you're using sales to validate talent, then Clapton has sold more than Beck, so he'd have to be better in every way if sales were the measuring point.

[Stijnson]

Robert Marcello, a less known swedish shredder, has nice some nice whammy bar stuff on some you tube videos.

[Frigo89]

Chris Risola(Sp?) from Steelheart had some tasty whammy stuff

[excon]

Actually, Duane Allman played the famous slide guitar on "Layla"! :ROTF:

The point was that if you're using sales to validate talent, then Clapton has sold more than Beck, so he'd have to be better in every way if sales were the measuring point.

The "Layla" album is a slidefest. Clapton and Allman shared the slide work. You'll notice there are quite a few slide duets. You can tell them apart because Eric is the strat and Duane is the Les Paul. So, KABOOM!

Also, I said there is no way to measure actual talent and that records sales are an indicator of talent. Read carefully.

[VitaminG]

oh, I read carefully

we're discussing individuals proficiency at a particular technique, so the usual subjectivity that you would use when comparing the creative arts doesn't apply. You can be objective when talking about someone mastery of a particular technique.

You've suggested that album sales are proof of a guitarists mastery of a particular technique. Which is why I threw up the Beck/Clapton comparison. Clapton doesn't use a whammy bar - Beck does, a lot. Clapton sells a lot more records than Beck. By your reasoning, Clapton therefore has a greater mastery of the whammy bar then Beck. Despite not using it....

Slayer's album sales are not proof of Kerry King's mastery of the whammy bar. You can objectively compare his use of the bar with any of the other guitarists mentioned in this thread. Some would be considers "masters", others wouldn't. But album sales have no bearing on the topic at hand. They do indicate that people enjoy what he does, for sure.

[excon]

oh, I read carefully

we're discussing individuals proficiency at a particular technique, so the usual subjectivity that you would use when comparing the creative arts doesn't apply. You can be objective when talking about someone mastery of a particular technique.

You've suggested that album sales are proof of a guitarists mastery of a particular technique. Which is why I threw up the Beck/Clapton comparison. Clapton doesn't use a whammy bar - Beck does, a lot. Clapton sells a lot more records than Beck. By your reasoning, Clapton therefore has a greater mastery of the whammy bar then Beck. Despite not using it....

Slayer's album sales are not proof of Kerry King's mastery of the whammy bar. You can objectively compare his use of the bar with any of the other guitarists mentioned in this thread. Some would be considers "masters", others wouldn't. But album sales have no bearing on the topic at hand. They do indicate that people enjoy what he does, for sure.

In post #105 I was referring to Post #102. In post # 102 there was a nonspecific comparison of talent between Poison and Tony McAlpine, and I thought that my comparison in post #105 clarified that I was continuing to make a nonspecific comparison of talent in general between Poison and Tony McAlpine. That’s why I summarized that it’s not productive to compare different kinds of talent. Sorry about getting off the topic of wammy bar, but I noticed that thread topics often evolve into different topics.

A measurement and an indication are two different things. A measurement measures an amount. An indication indicates yes or no. I guess that’s why I didn’t understand your comparison of Clapton and Beck. I didn’t think Clapton used a trem much, but I thought I could have been wrong.

I have stated why I think Kerry King is a master of the tremolo in several posts. I have heard numerous people agree with me. His record sales indicate that many others would agree also. That's all.

[horns666]

Excon..dude, yes some agree with you. But, I think everyone would agree with me when I say .."STOP with the fuggin' POST numbers!!!"

Bill Z Bub...post# 17,873

[excon]

Just trying to be specific, so no one misunderstands what I'm saying.

[horns666]

Just trying to be specific, so no one misunderstands what I'm saying.

Yes, I know..