Masters of the whammy bar

[Racerx2k]

Uh-oooh! Here we go again. Kerry's tremolo sounds are not meant to be pleasing to the ear. They are meant to sound evil, twisted, or terrifying. I think Kerry accomplishes this artfully, but as I said, there is no accounting for taste.

Sorry. Nothing artful about Kerry's playing. Just sophmoric wankery.

[Racerx2k]

Well I just got finished listening to Jimi's "Live At The Fillmore East" album on Napster, and I can't help but feel I've been listening to a tremolo master use his tremolo an awful lot. I just can't see how you're missing it. However, it is different from the "Experience" type Hendrix, and few people these days play or use their trem the way he did, so I guess I can understand why you might see things differently. I'm a firm believer in that there is no accounting for taste, so I guess we can agree that we just disagree.

Sorry, but I don't feel I'm missing anything. Just because someone uses their trem an "awful lot", again, does NOT make him a master. Sometimes it's what you DON'T play as much as what you DO play. I don't feel it's a taste issue, as I love Hendrix. The question was about "masters" of the trem. Jimi almost used his in a masturbatory form, instead of masterfully.......... I guess that would make him a "master-bater" of the trem!

[Rupe]

Sorry. Nothing artful about Kerry's playing. Just sophmoric wankery.

I gotta agree...I think any kid who knows how to plug a guitar in and turn it on can equal Kerry's talents on the bar...and most of his solos as well. Cool rhythm player, but a second rate hack when soloing.

[Endrik]

Ace Is God!!!!!!!!

[Racerx2k]

I gotta agree...I think any kid who knows how to plug a guitar in and turn it on can equal Kerry's talents on the bar...and most of his solos as well. Cool rhythm player, but a second rate hack when soloing.

I find Slayer's music less of a lesson in talent and skill, and more of a lesson in stamina.

[excon]

Sorry. Nothing artful about Kerry's playing. Just sophmoric wankery.

Kerry King’s “sophomoric wankery” can be heard on at least 15 albums that have been successfully selling for the past 25 years. Not to mention that every time he tours, thousands of people come to hear him play in places all over the world. Regardless of what you think of it, his guitar style and use of the tremolo has become legendary.

[excon]

Sorry, but I don't feel I'm missing anything. Just because someone uses their trem an "awful lot", again, does NOT make him a master. Sometimes it's what you DON'T play as much as what you DO play. I don't feel it's a taste issue, as I love Hendrix. The question was about "masters" of the trem. Jimi almost used his in a masturbatory form, instead of masterfully.......... I guess that would make him a "master-bater" of the trem!

Sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. I stated reasons why I think Jimi is a master of the trem because of what he DOES play (conventional and unconventional). Let’s hear what you think he DOESN’T play that makes his trem style under par, and don’t use degrading terms like “wankery” and “masturbatory” in your description. That’s insulting and I’m too mature and open minded for that sort of thing. Furthermore, his mastery of the trem IS a matter of taste weather you like him or not.

[Racerx2k]

Kerry King’s “sophomoric wankery” can be heard on at least 15 albums that have been successfully selling for the past 25 years. Not to mention that every time he tours, thousands of people come to hear him play in places all over the world. Regardless of what you think of it, his guitar style and use of the tremolo has become legendary.

Sorry, but if he has been playing that long, you'd think he'd have progressed by now. Instead, it sounds like that same "sophmoric wankery" to me. People all over the place, go to see studio wrestling, for decades. Doesn't make it Master Thespian Theater.

[Racerx2k]

Sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. I stated reasons why I think Jimi is a master of the trem because of what he DOES play (conventional and unconventional). Let’s hear what you think he DOESN’T play that makes his trem style under par, and don’t use degrading terms like “wankery” and “masturbatory” in your description. That’s insulting and I’m too mature and open minded for that sort of thing. Furthermore, his mastery of the trem IS a matter of taste weather you like him or not.

Are you referring to his "emulations", as you put it? Cause I never felt any of that was altogether great. I always felt Jimi was his best when he was actually playing the song, and not some sort of audible freakout. Look, I'm not trying to be degrading or put your opinions down. I'm merely stating mine, as you are yours. All part of what happens, here. I've been playing for 28 years, now, and Jimi was one of my earliest influences. Still is. However, that doesn't mean I have to think everything he did was golden. Thank God we don't all agree on everything! How boring!

[excon]

Are you referring to his "emulations", as you put it? Cause I never felt any of that was altogether great. I always felt Jimi was his best when he was actually playing the song, and not some sort of audible freakout. Look, I'm not trying to be degrading or put your opinions down. I'm merely stating mine, as you are yours. All part of what happens, here. I've been playing for 28 years, now, and Jimi was one of my earliest influences. Still is. However, that doesn't mean I have to think everything he did was golden. Thank God we don't all agree on everything! How boring!

I’ve been referring his emulations and all his uses of the tremolo in general. It’s fine that you never felt his emulations were great, and it’s fine that you didn’t think everything he did was golden. I was just stating my case. At least we both appreciate Jimi, and we can disagree about things without being disagreeable. Cool!

[excon]

Sorry, but if he has been playing that long, you'd think he'd have progressed by now. Instead, it sounds like that same "sophmoric wankery" to me. People all over the place, go to see studio wrestling, for decades. Doesn't make it Master Thespian Theater.

I don’t think it matters how much he’s progressed. The fact is he is an originator of his genre. His albums have been consistent and the sales have carried his career for 25 years. Plus his playing style and use of the tremolo have become legendary. I guess people like me will just have to live in his shadow. By the way, let me know how your CD’s are selling and when your North American tour starts so I can check it out.

[Racerx2k]

Again, sales are no indicator of a musician's talent, or lack thereof. If that was the case, then Poison wouldn't have outsold Tony McAlpine! I think it's more of an ABUSE than a USE of trem, in his case. by the way, my little CD is fairing, half-decent, and we play, tomorrow night.

[atomic charvel guy]

Listen to 'EXP" the 1st tune on Jimi's Axis Bold as Love album. Jimi is god. Van Halen was a god with the bar. I never heard the squeals he would get out of his axe be it on album or live in concert, and i saw them all from the 1st tour on up to one Sammy show and that was it for me. Yngwie accents beautifully with the bar, Adrian Belew, and Steve vai, who has the most control over an electric guitar than maybe anone on the planet. there's plenty more, Lynch,Nuno, etc. But the big 4are Jimi, EVH, Vai, and Brad Gillis, who I actually never listened to very much as it seemed he might have been lost without the whammy bar in my opinion, but like I said I never listened to a lot of his stuff

[VitaminG]

Again, sales are no indicator of a musician's talent, or lack thereof. If that was the case, then Poison wouldn't have outsold Tony McAlpine! I think it's more of an ABUSE than a USE of trem, in his case. by the way, my little CD is fairing, half-decent, and we play, tomorrow night.

there you have it! Proof that CC Deville is a better guitarist than Tony MacAlpine!

[excon]

Again, sales are no indicator of a musician's talent, or lack thereof. If that was the case, then Poison wouldn't have outsold Tony McAlpine! I think it's more of an ABUSE than a USE of trem, in his case. by the way, my little CD is fairing, half-decent, and we play, tomorrow night.

Record sales are an indicator of a musicians popularity. I’m not sure there is any way to measure actual talent, but the fact that large numbers of people go to music stores and spend their hard earned money for a particular artists CD is at least a pretty good indicator of that artists talent. Talent in almost any profession is measured by how much money it earns, but that’s not to say there isn’t talent that goes unrecognized especially in music.

Comparing Poison and Tony McAlpine is an apples and oranges type argument. Poison makes pop music. Ordinary music fans put on poison albums and sing along, rock their head, tap their foot, and happily unwind as they listen. I’m sure it takes an extraordinary amount of talent to appeal to that many people especially since there is an enormous amount of competition. I’m sure their fans would agree.
I used to read about Tony McAlpine in guitar magazines, and I used to have his Project Driver album. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he is a musicians musician, and I don’t think he had big hits and stardom on his mind when he got serious on his instrument. From what I remember reading, Tony McAlpine’s goal as a guitarist is to master guitar techniques that others would find difficult or impossible, and his goal as a musician is to explore the infinite possibilities of music. As most here know, that kind of skill takes tremendous knowledge and concentration.
Since this is a guitar forum, many of the members here favor instrumentalists who focus on the guitar. I can understand why people here might feel slighted by the music industry because their favorite musicians don’t get as much attention as they deserve. Fans of jazz and classical music often feel the same way because they feel that their music is the real music.
So, I don’t think it’s productive to compare different kinds of talent, and I don’t think it’s fair to say one is better than the other although there is nothing wrong with appreciating one more. It’s best to judge each in its own category.

In my first post in this thread (#66 ) I stated that Jimi is the original user/abuser of the trem. He is that, but I hear melodic use also. But enough about that! Let’s put it to rest. PLEASE!!!

By the way, congratulations on your gigging and your CD. I think that is a valuable measure of success. Your doing better than me these days. Hopefully I’ll be able to get things back together for myself soon. Kerry King just finished a world tour and his latest CD will probably go gold if it hasn’t already, so I guess he’s probably pretty busy with his own success. At least me and you have time to keep company on the JCF and continue arguing with these annoying little posts.