new Motley Crue tune

[MartinBarre]

MartinBarre how many albums you actually have heard by Bob... 2..3 or maybe even 4?

At least 9. And of those 9, the only one I actually like the production on is Bon Jovi's "Keep the Faith". And even at that, I'm fucking SURE I can hear a phone ringing during the solo in "Dry County"! It does my head in, I answer my phone every fucking time I listen to that song loud!
But yeah, having looked closer at it, he sucks.

[Endrik]

prove me I'm wrong... but I think you don't have any idea what production really is

[MartinBarre]

prove me I'm wrong... but I think you don't have any idea what production really is

Yeah well, clearly you do, so, good for you - Your Opinion = Better Than Everyone Else's.

[guitarzan2]

Trying to defend Bob Rock as a quality metal producer is like trying to defend Michael Jackson in a child molestion case.

[Endrik]

Trying to defend Bob Rock as a quality metal producer is like trying to defend Michael Jackson in a child molestion case.

ahhaaa... that's it.... who said Bob is a metal producer?
metal producer... jeez.... metal fucking producer... being metal producer sucks ass.... little labels... little bands... no budget... not time... and doing only one kind of music.... :ROTF: 99,9% of metal producers are fucking sound engineers who want them being credited as a producers on the album sheets... metal producer my ass

[Endrik]

Yeah well, clearly you do, so, good for you - Your Opinion = Better Than Everyone Else's.

umm my opinion is just an opinion but I like to know some actual facts rather than just talk out of my ass

your statements are kinda weird to me... my favorite thing was "Give us some examples of how he actually made an album better than it would have been without him."

and since it's a Motley Crue thread... I mean WTF??? do you even bother to listen? MC had many different producers and non of them could capture Tommy Lee's drum sound, his power and energy on an album.... but when Bob came... just listen to Dr. Feelgod when the title trakc kicks in... now that's how Tommy sounds when you see him live. And now listen to the previous album Girls, Girls, Girls.... over processed... drums sound like in a fucking tetris game. Then compare the dynamics of Feelgood to Girls.... no comparison. Then listen to song arrangements.... no comparison.

[Endrik]

I didn't have a bad thing to say about Bob rock until I heard the snare sound on St. Anger. What the hell happened there?! I don't care how live and raw they wanted to do a record, that thing is offensive. From what I could tell from that trainwreck of a movie, Rock was acting as main engineer - that doesn't speak well for his technical expertise, or his ear for sounds. Sometimes a producer is only as good as his engineers.

well... that kind of snare sound is used before... just take the snare off the snare drum.. and voila.... but it indeed gets kinda annoying... It's ok if one or two songs have that sound but the whole album...
but what producer/engineer hasn't made some bad choices (bad is subjective of course)
Metallica is now working with Rick Rubin who unlike Bob doesn't have any clue how engineering works. Rick is a very good producer and has made a lot of stuff in many different genres. His work with Johnny Cash was fucking amazing... older RHCP stuff was brilliant... his work with old-school rappers was great... but he has made many shitty albums too in my opinion.
But as I've heard Lars has a really hard time with him because Rick demands Lars to record the drum tracks for each song in one full take... and we all know how good Lars is at that

Anyway even if St. Anger's snare sound is annoying... still Bob has made some of the best drum sounds. The Black Album has the best drum sound I've ever heard on a heavy metal albums.
It sounds huge, powerful and at the same time so natural unlike most of the metal albums today with their over processed/triggered plastic sounding crap.
He used about 40 mics on a drum set... now that's a fucking commitment and thinking out of the box.
And the whole black album mix is just so good.... it's so wide and "panoramical"... it's very tight and yet each instrument has plenty of space not to get to eachother's way.
People don't make albums like this anymore.
That shows that Bob is a great producer, engineer and a mixman. He is often hired only for engineering and/or mixing. Starting way back when legendary Brye Fairbairn wanted Bob to do all that.
St. Anger is what it is... but even on that album the mix is fantastic.

[thebeggar]

Anyway even if St. Anger's snare sound is annoying... still Bob has made some of the best drum sounds. The Black Album has the best drum sound I've ever heard on a heavy metal albums.
It sounds huge, powerful and at the same time so natural unlike most of the metal albums today with their over processed/triggered plastic sounding crap.
He used about 40 mics on a drum set... now that's a fucking commitment and thinking out of the box.
And the whole black album mix is just so good.... it's so wide and "panoramical"... it's very tight and yet each instrument has plenty of space not to get to eachother's way.

I agree and like I said before Tommy Lee's drum sound on the 94 crue album is fucking UNBELIEVABLE. It sounds like he has set up his kit in my fucking lounge room. This from a producer who doesn't know what he is doing, wtf, I don't think so.

The classic albums series did a show on the black album and at one point Lars makes a reference to Bob Rock coming into the studio "with his friend Tommy Lee" to check out the sound they were getting. Which reminds me that I'm pretty sure Metallica sought out Bob after hearing Dr Feelgood and liked what he was doing with the bottom end on that album.

I think Bob Rock might at least have half an idea of what he doing if one of the world's biggest bands seeks you out.

[MartinBarre]

umm my opinion is just an opinion but I like to know some actual facts rather than just talk out of my ass

your statements are kinda weird to me... my favorite thing was "Give us some examples of how he actually made an album better than it would have been without him."

and since it's a Motley Crue thread... I mean WTF??? do you even bother to listen? MC had many different producers and non of them could capture Tommy Lee's drum sound, his power and energy on an album.... but when Bob came... just listen to Dr. Feelgod when the title trakc kicks in... now that's how Tommy sounds when you see him live. And now listen to the previous album Girls, Girls, Girls.... over processed... drums sound like in a fucking tetris game. Then compare the dynamics of Feelgood to Girls.... no comparison. Then listen to song arrangements.... no comparison.

Ah, my mistake. I didn't realise a good drum sound = a great album.
I couldn't give a crap about Tommy Lee's drum sound, or if he's getting his big T-bone blown during a song. It doesn't interest me - all I care about is how good the songs sound.
To me "Shout at the Devil" and "Girls" both sound better than Feelgood. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

Clearly you're some kind of (wannabe?) professional sound engineer who spends his time in recording studios, so you know more than anyone else about the ins and outs of sound production. That's fine. You know the technicalities (well, you seem to claim so, although the lack of technical jargon or true know how in your posts suggests otherwise). But all that matters ultimately is how the albums SOUND OVERALL. Not a drum sound, not a guitar sound - the whole big picture.

The big picture, to my ears, tells me Bob Rock is an arse who ruins good bands.

[Endrik]

Ah, my mistake. I didn't realise a good drum sound = a great album.
I couldn't give a crap about Tommy Lee's drum sound, or if he's getting his big T-bone blown during a song. It doesn't interest me - all I care about is how good the songs sound.
To me "Shout at the Devil" and "Girls" both sound better than Feelgood. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

Clearly you're some kind of (wannabe?) professional sound engineer who spends his time in recording studios, so you know more than anyone else about the ins and outs of sound production. That's fine. You know the technicalities (well, you seem to claim so, although the lack of technical jargon or true know how in your posts suggests otherwise). But all that matters ultimately is how the albums SOUND OVERALL. Not a drum sound, not a guitar sound - the whole big picture.

The big picture, to my ears, tells me Bob Rock is an arse who ruins good bands.

yet again you like to put your words in my mouth... why is that?

yes... how the songs sound is the most important thing and first of all it depends a lot on how they are written (mostly the job of band members)
then, you don't really read thru my post... the drum sound doesn't make a great album... yes indeed the overall sound and the whole productional concept determines how good or bad the album is.
If you like Girls better than Feelgood... then fine by me.... IMO Girls had only a couple of good tunes and the productional concept didn't reflect the band at all.
Why I liked Bob's work on Feelgood is that he captured the band's vibe and energy on the album. That's the most important thing.
Girls, Girls, Girls title song has one of the heaviest riffs when you hear it live... on the album it sounds like AOR band is playing.
The tunes on Feelgood sound pretty much like they are played live.
You mentioned "the big picture"... now on Girls and Theater the big picture was to make a badass band sound like cheesy Top 40 band... nothing wrong with that but doesn't fit with MC's image.
The big picture on Feelgood was much interesting. Bob really brought the rhythm section in front... made them more groove oriented... the vocal lines had more support and depth... the arrangements had a lot of dynamics and the whole band was very tight. Cheesy over-produced AOR thing was replaced with more swaggerish Aerosmith vibe.

The big picture is to capture the true essence of the band... Girls didn't do that... Feelgood did. Ask any MC member wich album sounds more Motley Crue.

[horns666]

Mars's best tone/writing/playing was on DRFG..

Metallica has sucked more cock than a chubby whitehouse intern since ..i dunno..20 fuggin' years now?

Lars has to be one of the worst, sloppiest, overratted drummers in rock/metal. They peeked for 2 years from '84 to the death of cliff...and Kirk?..fuggums

Most people's favorite bands are the ones I quit listening to 20+ years ago..I moved to much better things...I dunno.

fuggums...I just can't say fuggums enough..from the very deepest of my bowels and blackend, cynical core..I say fuggums.

[Endrik]

Lars has to be one of the worst, sloppiest, overratted drummers in rock/metal

poor engineers... back when recording wasn't done to hard drives but to 2" tapes.... can't imagine how much they had to cut and paste (literally... with a razor blade) his drum parts

[horns666]

poor engineers... back when recording wasn't done to hard drives but to 2" tapes.... can't imagine how much they had to cut and paste (literally... with a razor blade) his drum parts

Wow, That had to be a pain..well he was OK back then. Then again maybe not that ok. Ever noticed him live..his meter is all over the place..his kicks are uneven at full tilt which is not even moderate to today's standards. Being primarlity a bassist ..I need eye to eye contact trying to lock in with him , and that prolly wouldn't do much good. I hate to dog the guy..but I only do that because there is sooo many countless others better that rarely get mention..but he's Lars..so we must bow down to the troll..not!..fuggums.

[Endrik]

yes, his meter is off and struggles to keep the beat.... one good thing tho. he can hit well to get the right sound out of drums... but damn... even Rikki Rocket has improved

[JC_Denton]

Ah, my mistake. I didn't realise a good drum sound = a great album.
I couldn't give a crap about Tommy Lee's drum sound, or if he's getting his big T-bone blown during a song. It doesn't interest me - all I care about is how good the songs sound.
To me "Shout at the Devil" and "Girls" both sound better than Feelgood. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

Clearly you're some kind of (wannabe?) professional sound engineer who spends his time in recording studios, so you know more than anyone else about the ins and outs of sound production. That's fine. You know the technicalities (well, you seem to claim so, although the lack of technical jargon or true know how in your posts suggests otherwise). But all that matters ultimately is how the albums SOUND OVERALL. Not a drum sound, not a guitar sound - the whole big picture.

The big picture, to my ears, tells me Bob Rock is an arse who ruins good bands.

i really cant figure out how a overall sound can be good without a good drum sound