Still of the Night '89

[Bengal]

You still don't get it. You think bands like Dangerous Toys and (FFS) the Bulletboys were "ok" because everyone else said so? From what I recall, Bulletboys were gayer than Rob Halford on a night out with Freddie Mercury.
If you've grown up so much, why are you using standards you used when you were an adolescent to "prove" which bands people are allowed to listen to?
Motley Crue. Inside cover of the gatefold "Shout At the Devil". Cool.
No - they were "cool" cos they made a big show about the drugs, drink and sex. Leppard, being British, never made a big deal of that kinda thing so were seen as "gay" while Crue were seen as "dangerous" despite doing songs like "Nona" and "Time For Change".
It's a ridiculous line of argument and you know it. Music isn't about "gayness", it's about what you enjoy.

I don't think you remember the Bulletboys. The were just a ripoff of Van Halen. The Bulletboys were OK because we liked the first 2 albums.

I never liked anything because my friends said it was OK. Never. Don't know where you got that point.

If you read my EDIT you'd know I tried again when I was older to listen to it. Still sucks. So I'm not using anything but my ear to tell me it sucks.

Motley was cool becuase of songs like "Piece Of Your Action" and "Looks That Kill". Not because of the drugs. We didn't have the internet back then, I had no clue what they were doing in their private life. They wrote good songs and had cool videos. That's what made them cool in 1982, not their private life.

Leppard were seen as "gay" because of songs like "Rock Of Ages", "Love Bites", "Women", "Armageddon It", "Rocket", "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad", "Pour Some Sugar On Me", "Bringing On The Heartbreak Redux", "Lets Get Rocked", "When Love And Hate Collide", "Hysteria", do I need to go on? We based our opinion on the songs above and we thought they were weak. I still do. Sorry, not my thing at all.

I get you love them. Cool. But you put your opinion out there, don't be surprised when someone else has a different opinion and puts it out there too. Ripping on them gets you nowhere, well it makes you look stupid. Don't like my take? That's OK, I don't like yours either.

[Endrik]

I like Def Leppard but Whitesnake '87 was like the second coming of VH1... this incredible out of the world guitar sound, amazing riff after riff, solos that ripped your head off and every song that kicked your ass + the best singer in rock (in my opinion)

and no, David didn't fire that line-up to get better looking members... Sykes was the hottest dude in the bunch
it was all because of huge ego's.... I thought everyone knows it already

[MartinBarre]

That said, Leppards "X" album was so gay. Pure garbage, it really was. And "Yeah" was even worse.

[MartinBarre]

You missed my point. That's how it WAS, back in the day. Only chicks liked Leppard. So back then, only the cars with girls in it would roll through the park with Leppard blasting out of the car. Lep or Bon Jovi.

Dudes listened to hair bands too but not chick ones. Let me see if I can remember a few. Dangerous Toys was one, they were OK. Tora Tora, Bulletboys, Van Halen, Whitesnake, Motley. There are a few. So it wasn't just "hair metal", it was "Pussy hair metal" like Leppard, Jovi and Winger. Don't forget White Lion.

I stopped listening to Def Leppard when they started to suck, around Pyromania. I saw the writing on the wall. Anyone with 1 good eye could see it.

Nice try on the rip though. Maybe you'll get it next time.

EDIT: When I "grew up" I went back and tried out some of that pussy rock too. Know what I found out? It sucked back then, it still sucks now.

You still don't get it. You think bands like Dangerous Toys and (FFS) the Bulletboys were "ok" because everyone else said so? From what I recall, Bulletboys were gayer than Rob Halford on a night out with Freddie Mercury.
If you've grown up so much, why are you using standards you used when you were an adolescent to "prove" which bands people are allowed to listen to?
Motley Crue. Inside cover of the gatefold "Shout At the Devil". Cool.
No - they were "cool" cos they made a big show about the drugs, drink and sex and had a (non inverted!) pentagram on their album cover (forget about the polka dots?!). Leppard, being British, never made a big deal of that kinda thing so were seen as "gay" while Crue were seen as "dangerous" despite doing songs like "Nona" and "Time For Change".
It's a ridiculous line of argument and you know it. Music isn't about "gayness", it's about what you enjoy.

[Bengal]

I can't believe someone would say only kids should listen to DL cos they're not as heavy as Slayer.
I actually felt the same as you - I stopped listening to Leppard and DIre Straits, and only listened to Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth etc.
But I was 14 at the time.
I grew up and realised it doesn't really matter what your peers think of the bands you listen to.

Maybe once you're older than 14 you'll get it.

You missed my point. That's how it WAS, back in the day. Only chicks liked Leppard. So back then, only the cars with girls in it would roll through the park with Leppard blasting out of the car. Lep or Bon Jovi.

Dudes listened to hair bands too but not chick ones. Let me see if I can remember a few. Dangerous Toys was one, they were OK. Tora Tora, Bulletboys, Van Halen, Whitesnake, Motley. There are a few. So it wasn't just "hair metal", it was "Pussy hair metal" like Leppard, Jovi and Winger. Don't forget White Lion.

I stopped listening to Def Leppard when they started to suck, around Pyromania. I saw the writing on the wall. Anyone with 1 good eye could see it.

Nice try on the rip though. Maybe you'll get it next time.

EDIT: When I "grew up" I went back and tried out some of that pussy rock too. Know what I found out? It sucked back then, it still sucks now.

[MartinBarre]

But if you are going to deffend Lep, you better be a chick or very young.

I can't believe someone would say only kids should listen to DL cos they're not as heavy as Slayer.
I actually felt the same as you - I stopped listening to Leppard and DIre Straits, and only listened to Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth etc.
But I was 14 at the time.
I grew up and realised it doesn't really matter what your peers think of the bands you listen to.

Maybe once you're older than 14 you'll get it.

[Bengal]

What's up with all the Def Leppard fanboys?

I thought only chicks liked Leppard after Pyro? That's how it was around here. Kinda like Bon Jovi, they were cool in the first album. After that, they became a chick band. Leppard did the same exact thing. You got your ass kicked around here if you brought out ANY album after Pyromania, and you might get your ass kicked for bringing that out too. "Rock Of Ages" is one of the lamest songs ever. Doesn't go anywhere, doesn't do anything. You know you have a problem if you base your song around a drum beat. Weak.

But around here, you didn't see anyone with a Def Leppard backpatch. Slayer? Yep. Metallica? Yep. Venom? Yep. Merciful Fate? Yep. Def Leppard? No fuckin' way.

But saying Leppard is better than Whitesnake is compairing apples to oranges. Sure, Lep sold more. If that's the criteria, Lep wins hands down.

But if you are going on personal taste, that's an open question.

But if you are going to deffend Lep, you better be a chick or very young.

Leps music is vapid and without meaning. "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad?" Are you kidding me? Pure radio pap. As crappy as anything Michael Bolton has ever put out.

But it all comes down to kick ass music. "Still Of The Night" kicks ass. Lep has no song that kicks as much as as that one song. I won't even mention "Slide It In". If I did, game over man, game over.

EDIT: I didn't even see the Steve Clark > Steve Vai part. I can't even comment on that. I liked Clark, you have to love such a self destructive guy like that, but he's not even in the same arena as Vai.

And about the "kicking guys out because they needed better looking guys" comment. What about kicking out Pete Willis for Phil Collen? Sure Pete was a drunk, and there was only room for one drunk in the band, but Phil was better looking than Pete. You think the guys didn't think about that? You know they did. What they should have thought about was kicking the heart out of the band, and that's what they did. If Willis was still in the band, I'm sure I wouldn't have wasted 10 minutes typing all this crap.

[GodOfRhythm]

That harmonic with the behind-the-nut vbrato at 4.00 is fucking INSANE!!!!!!!

I'm gonna have to steal that trick!

[MartinBarre]

Calling any band "cynical MTV metal" in defense of DL is rich, thick ironic goodness...

I can't defend what they've done in recent years - they've chased every trend going to an embarrassing extent.
But the quality of songs on Pyro and Hysteria were so good that I wouldn't call them "cynical" albums at all. At least they never kicked members out just to get in better looking guys for the videos.

[nor]

Bollocks. Sure there are some GREAT songs on there. But it's cynical MTV metal.

Pyro and Hysteria are miles better, in terms of songs.

Calling any band "cynical MTV metal" in defense of DL is rich, thick ironic goodness...

[thetroy]

WS '87 blows everything that DL has ever done away

[Endrik]

Amazing you would like a redneck white trash band like Whitesnake.
Maybe you're more inbred than I thought you were

they are Brits... you know, from the place where you can turn right in a car race

[VitaminG]

seriously what the fuck are you on?

I think he mighting be tripping on vitriol

[Endrik]

Bollocks. Sure there are some GREAT songs on there. But it's cynical MTV metal.

Pyro and Hysteria are miles better, in terms of songs.

seriously what the fuck are you on?

[VitaminG]

Bollocks. Sure there are some GREAT songs on there. But it's cynical MTV metal.

Pyro and Hysteria are miles better, in terms of songs.

I really should check out Pyro one of these years, since so many people trumpet about how great it is. After hearing "Me And My Wine" (or whatever it was called), "Bringing on the Heartbreak" & then all of Hysteria, I thought I'd heard enough of the band to form an opinion, but maybe I'm missing out on a masterpiece from way back when.

I would've called DL cynical MTV metal before I would label WS the same. Hysteria seemed an album of hooks & production tricks to me, not a lot in the way of good songwriting. But the hooks in those songs made for great little soundbites in the ads for the album.

WS '87 was recorded two years before it's release and the band that recorded the album weren't doing the puffy hair & velvet jacket thing, that was an entirely different band miming along in the videos when the album was finally released. I always hated that a great band would change their focus to style over substance just to chase the young pups selling big on MTV. Whereas DL always seemed to me to write little pop ditties with crunchy guitars who just upgraded their wardrobe & videos after they started making money.

As far as Campbell deferring to Collen's greatness, well he's hardly going to call himself a better guitarist given that it's Phil's band & Viv's just a hired gun. He knows who's paying his wages. That's not to say Phil isn't the better player - I've heard plenty of folks here say that he can do some amazing shit on guitar, just not on his band's albums apparently