Fuck yes, Jeff Loomis!

[khabibissell]

If anything, it validates my point and your ignorance. Where's the proof of Satch having anything better?

Exactly.

I guess that tune is just "above my head" and I "don't understand it" right?

Jason's story is tragic and he was a talented young guitarist, but it doesn't change the fact that the "song" you posted was nothing more than 5 minute (4:45 seconds to be exact) wankfest. I'm glad you're impressed by it though... that young fella had some great technique.

[VitaminG]

That video you posted only validates my point.

If anything, it validates my point and your ignorance. Where's the proof of Satch having anything better?

Exactly.

I know you are but what am I?

[Jacksons Shred]

That video you posted only validates my point.

If anything, it validates my point and your ignorance. Where's the proof of Satch having anything better?

Exactly.

[khabibissell]

Becker was 16-17 when he recorded the Cacophony material, and in between albums you can definitely hear his growth as a guitarist. Go Off! Was way more song orientated, and definitely had way less wankage than the Satch shit. Also, if you really want to question Becker's ability to write instrumentals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z1vn1QAhV4

3:00 seconds, listen from then on, or listen to the whole song. Show me anything Satch has done that is as interesting and emotional than that.

I never once said that Satch was a bad guitarist on any means, but compared to Loomis, he definitely has his short comings. I'm sure Loomis has his short comings compared to satch, but melody, tone, interest, and "wanking", are definitely not his short comings.

That video you posted only validates my point.

[nsubulysses]

Satch in NOT TRUE

[thetroy]

Satch, Vai, Loomis, Beck, and most every other guitarist out there all sound better as members of bands than in their solo stuff.

The only guitar-solo CD's that I think are strong start to finish are Rising Force and Perpetual Burn. Time Odyssey is pretty close too - I get a little bored but don't skip any tracks.

[Jacksons Shred]

So what you're saying is that Satch turns his songs into a wankfest more often than Loomis does on Zero Order Phase or Jason Becker does on the instrumentals he wrote?! Yeah, the Cacophony materials was filled with restraint... Both Loomis and Becker (when he was well) both seemed to focus more on showing off the technical side of their playing rather than developing melodic ideas. In other words, most of their tunes are what I consider a "wankfest". I'm not denying that both players are (were in Beckers case) immensly talented guitar players, they're just not the best songwriters, at least in an instrumental sense. What I hear are five minute guitar solos over backing tracks for the most part. Some people dig that, I don't. It starts getting old quick... maybe IM getting old.

Calling Satch boring, generic, and overrated is assinine. He pretty much paved the way for instrumental guitar recordings. I would agree that he seems like he's mailing it in at times these days, but you have to remember he's been doing it for over twenty years and not a kid any more. Also, most of you guys seems to be into more extreme/neo classical metal styles of music so I can see how Satch wouldn't appeal to you. As far as vibrato goes, Satch has pretty good intonation. I don't hear any out of tune bends/vibrato from him. I should also point out that he works dynamics alot more than the other two guys mentioned do.

Becker was 16-17 when he recorded the Cacophony material, and in between albums you can definitely hear his growth as a guitarist. Go Off! Was way more song orientated, and definitely had way less wankage than the Satch shit. Also, if you really want to question Becker's ability to write instrumentals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z1vn1QAhV4

3:00 seconds, listen from then on, or listen to the whole song. Show me anything Satch has done that is as interesting and emotional than that.

I never once said that Satch was a bad guitarist on any means, but compared to Loomis, he definitely has his short comings. I'm sure Loomis has his short comings compared to satch, but melody, tone, interest, and "wanking", are definitely not his short comings.

[Endrik]

I agree with Steve... I still don't understand how sweep picking patterns or other finger exercises alone make a good instrumental album. I think Jeff Beck is still the man in this category because he puts more effort in the whole concept of the album than the others seem to do. I've never been a huge Satch fan but he made one of the coolest instrumental guitar albums I've ever heard... Engines Of Creation... the artistic and creative side of the album is very strong... that's why I love it.
Loomis is a very strong rhythm player in Nevermore but his solos are often boring and generic... nothing new or creative about it... 90% of it is finger exercises. I used to love that kind of playing when I was younger but now something about those endless ascending and descending runs on the scales turn me off.

[khabibissell]

I fully disagree, as I said in my review, there are a few parts where this album is dragged out, but Zero Order Phase literally shits on anything Satch has ever done. The only thing's I like by satch are his slow songs with zero shred.

I'm sorry, but Satch is generic, boring, and over-rated (compared to the real virtuosos). There's no denying his talent, but he wanks off more than most shredders and gets praised for it. Loomis's tone dominates satch's on all levels, his melodies dominate satch, and lets not start on vibrato..

The real master of guitar orientated instrumentals goes to Jason Becker though .

So what you're saying is that Satch turns his songs into a wankfest more often than Loomis does on Zero Order Phase or Jason Becker does on the instrumentals he wrote?! Yeah, the Cacophony materials was filled with restraint... Both Loomis and Becker (when he was well) both seemed to focus more on showing off the technical side of their playing rather than developing melodic ideas. In other words, most of their tunes are what I consider a "wankfest". I'm not denying that both players are (were in Beckers case) immensly talented guitar players, they're just not the best songwriters, at least in an instrumental sense. What I hear are five minute guitar solos over backing tracks for the most part. Some people dig that, I don't. It starts getting old quick... maybe IM getting old.

Calling Satch boring, generic, and overrated is assinine. He pretty much paved the way for instrumental guitar recordings. I would agree that he seems like he's mailing it in at times these days, but you have to remember he's been doing it for over twenty years and not a kid any more. Also, most of you guys seems to be into more extreme/neo classical metal styles of music so I can see how Satch wouldn't appeal to you. As far as vibrato goes, Satch has pretty good intonation. I don't hear any out of tune bends/vibrato from him. I should also point out that he works dynamics alot more than the other two guys mentioned do.

Andy Timmons was mentioned and yes, he's a badass too. I'd like to hear more of his work.

[Jacksons Shred]

When is comes to writing guitar oriented instrumentals, no on can touch Satch. His playing on them almost always comes across as a voice and he usually tries to establish a melodic theme. I prefer that... I love shredding, but I guess only in moderation

I fully disagree, as I said in my review, there are a few parts where this album is dragged out, but Zero Order Phase literally shits on anything Satch has ever done. The only thing's I like by satch are his slow songs with zero shred.

I'm sorry, but Satch is generic, boring, and over-rated (compared to the real virtuosos). There's no denying his talent, but he wanks off more than most shredders and gets praised for it. Loomis's tone dominates satch's on all levels, his melodies dominate satch, and lets not start on vibrato..

The real master of guitar orientated instrumentals goes to Jason Becker though .

[VitaminG]

Satch actually puts me to sleep most of the time. He has certainly had his moments, but I can't listen to more than a couple of songs before I'm looking for another cd to put on.

I've said it before, if Satch could make an instrumental album anywhere near as good as Andy Timmons, I'd own them all. Timmons, I can just put on repeat and let it play over and over.

[bibz]

haha so satch is like a natural singer, and loomis is cookie monstering in shred?

I can totally see that, and theyre both in my top 3 fave guitarists

[khabibissell]

sounds very meedley...meedley to me. He sure ain't no Uli Jon Roth. Thats for sure.

And there in lies the problem with this CD IMO. I love Jeff's playing... he's got great vibrato, can be melodic, and has ultra clean technique. BUT I can't tolerate listening to it for more than a five or ten minutes at a time. Too much up and down scale/sweep picking solos over a five minute backing track. The rhythm playing is really good too, I just wish the songs had a melodic hook you can grasp on to, but with some killer soloing in between. I enjoyed it at first, but it got old quick.

When is comes to writing guitar oriented instrumentals, no on can touch Satch. His playing on them almost always comes across as a voice and he usually tries to establish a melodic theme. I prefer that... I love shredding, but I guess only in moderation

[VitaminG]

no, you are right, John. I enjoy listening to Jeff's music

[jgcable]

sounds very meedley...meedley to me. He sure ain't no Uli Jon Roth. Thats for sure.