New pro mod cracked neck!!!!

[straycat]

I would have bought a new neck and fixed the old neck and never started this post.
Some people have a real problem admitting they broke something.
I have been repairing guitars a long time and have seen this a lot.

[Chad]

Perhaps this was a rare case of SGC: Spontaneous Guitar Combustion. Just be thankful that thing didn't catch itself on fire and burn down your studio!

[biged71]

Thanks for weighing in Mike. So I can see a company mass-producing inexpensive guitars rushing them through the finishing process, but a company like Suhr, Anderson, etc. building high-end, bolt-on guitars I think would take more care. I have never taken the neck off of any of my Suhrs or the Andersons I used to have, so I can't say for sure if there were extra paint in there or not, but I would be shocked if there was because both companies have excellent reputations for QC and attention to detail. I want to be clear that I don't think your comments were directed toward them, or meant to slag them in any way either. I'm sure you have great respect for them as builders, just as I'm sure they have great respect for your insane artwork. I'm sure you build a great guitar too, but I have never had a chance to check one out in person.

Really I'm just trying to figure out, even without messing with the neck bolts, etc. in the real world with climate changes, going to play at the bar once a week, etc. are those neck pocket cracks just a fact of life with tight fitting pockets? And also, I was always led to believe a tight fitting neck pocket was better and more condusive to tone transfer, resonants, etc. Is that not accurate? Have I been looking for guitars with tight neck pockets for no reason? Say it ain't so Mike. I'm not really to stable right now, and I can't take another let down.

Seriously though, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I'm glad someone brought it up because it's something I have always wondered about. Also, what are your thoughts on glued wood being as strong or stronger than a single piece of wood on it's own. Over the years I have been told that by several people that I consider to be knowledgeable sources. Do you think that's accurate? Thanks for the info.

[biged71]

I would have bought a new neck and fixed the old neck and never started this post.
Some people have a real problem admitting they broke something.
I have been repairing guitars a long time and have seen this a lot.

FMIC wanted the old neck back as part of the deal. I guess I'm lucky. I have no problem admitting when I break something. Thanks for weighing in though. You definitely offered a unique and insightful view point, and also contributed a lot to the conversation.

[biged71]

Perhaps this was a rare case of SGC: Spontaneous Guitar Combustion. Just be thankful that thing didn't catch itself on fire and burn down your studio!

I thought that just affected drummers?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Ed,
Sorry to see that the pain of your guitar mishap is still finding its way into your life.

Cracks in the neck pocket are caused by a many different things. One of the most common is a poor fitting guitar in a case and side load placed on the neck when transporting the guitar.

G & G cases... They don't stand up to UPS too well.

[AndyK]

One thought - could a cleaning person, repair person, electrician, plumber, etc. have knocked the guitar over, then put it back, without you knowing, causing the crack to start?

[RobRR]

Neck pocket cracks are a way of life as far as I'm concerned. Tight fitting, loose fitting, excess paint or not, they mostly all have em. The one guitar that doesent have them, with probably the tightest fitting neck I've ever seen, is my socal. I damn near had to force the neck back in, yet as of last night, no cracks. I'm sure it'll happen eventually though.

[biged71]

One thought - could a cleaning person, repair person, electrician, plumber, etc. have knocked the guitar over, then put it back, without you knowing, causing the crack to start?

No bud, I haven't had anyone like that over. The studio is locked and alarmed and I'm the only one with access unless I'm recording and have friends over which I haven't done in almost a year. Who knows. I have been willing to accept that its not a defect because I don't have the expertise to say otherwise. I have never seen this before so I have to trust people that have. My only problem is people accusing me of breaking my own guitar, trying to cover it up, and lying about it. That's not how I live my life.

And I really do appreciate you offering your suggestion in a non-accusatory, civilized manner. You are a gentleman.

[Evol]

Heya biged, if I may relate a story to you that isn't guitar related, but has a bit of a familiar ring to it.

A few years ago some friends of mine and I we're planning a fishing trip, and since I was driving and my car needed new tires, on the day of the trip I went and bought a set from a local shop that's been in business for 30+ years. All is fine and well until we're on the way home at like 4am, and after driving on them for only a couple hundred miles, suddenly I feel my car pulling to the right, HARD. I was going like 70 so I had to stop in a hurry, of course the tire was flat and I was running on the rim.

So, a quick change with the spare and we're off, I just figured I ran over a nail or something and would take the tire to the same shop and pay for them to fix the flat. Well, the next day I take it in and the guy who's going to repair the flat tells me there is no hole in the tire, but the belt is broke. I told him what happened, and since it was a brand new tire, surely it was a defect and that I would like a replacement. Then things got VERY ugly. He went to his boss, who said there is NO WAY this could happen, surely I must have hit something, of course I didn't know until then that the rim had a flat spot in it from when it hit the road while stopping.

I told his boss the story, and he went to every "tire tech" (lol) and they all agreed, that I *must* have hit something to cause this to happen. Now, my 3 friends and I all know that isn't the case, so I stood my ground, until they called the owner to come in. He accused me of the same bullshit. I told him I would get my friends in here to tell him the same story, but he said they would just lie for me too. Now I was pissed, the arguing got heated enough that it turned into a shoving match, and damn near came to blows before his employees wisely pulled us apart.

Finally, I told him that if I hit something that fucking hard, hard enough to bend the rim and destroy the tire (without puncturing it) I would have much more of a problem that a fucking flat tire, a flat tire that I came in to PAY to have fixed. I finally did get it replaced but it took over an hour and almost caused someone to go to jail. In the end, only one of the "techs" came up to me and said I must be right.

The point is that 90% or so of those "experts" were full of shit, and *knew* that I must have caused the problem. It's no big surprise to see that happening here to an extent.

I do agree that the crack looks like the guitar took a fall, but it *could* be reasonable to assume this happened in shipping to the store, or somewhere along the way that this could have been a very faint crack you might not have noticed that turned ugly after months of string tension. I dunno.

[Grandturk]

Except that the crack is in the opposite direction of string tension. Its almost like the truss rod had a crazy back bow in it and instead of straightening the neck, as it was pulling back, it split the neck at that point.

Imagine grabbing the top of a tree and pulling it towards you, then instead of it bending, it just snaps - that's the kind of force the truss rod would have to exert to split the neck.

[biged71]

Except that the crack is in the opposite direction of string tension. Its almost like the truss rod had a crazy back bow in it and instead of straightening the neck, as it was pulling back, it split the neck at that point.

Imagine grabbing the top of a tree and pulling it towards you, then instead of it bending, it just snaps - that's the kind of force the truss rod would have to exert to split the neck.

One thing I hate about these guitars ius that to adjust the rod you have to take the neck off. I didn't have the guitar long enough to even need that and wouldn't the guitar play badly if there was too much or too little relief? The action was and still is great, so I don't see how that is possible. I'm not sure of the mechanics, but isn't the only way for the rod to move is to adjust it manually?

Several people have brought up that it could have been a crack that I didn't notice when I bought it. I really looked this over with a fine tooth comb when I was comparing it to the others before I bought it. Could a crack be so slight that you can't see it?

[biged71]

Thanks Evol. Very similiar situation. And for the record, as a long time car guy, I have heard of new tires having defective belts on occasion.

[ekalb09]

Just checking into this thread now.

Wow, how is it that this Ed guy hasn't been banned? He has disrespected all who have offered opinions that did not mesh with his own, and even told one forum member to consider suicide?!

Wow.

Although it is a nuisance, I think it takes more than a butting of heads to get you banned. Sometimes part of discussion is debate, although this thread is getting excessive.

Lets just rename it to "How to get JCF members to rage" and sticky it. :ROTF:

[Grandturk]

I'm not sure of the mechanics, but isn't the only way for the rod to move is to adjust it manually?

...

Could a crack be so slight that you can't see it?

The truss rod is always under tension - it pulls back against the force of the strings pulling forward. If it could happen - and I'm not saying it could - in this case, the wood "lost" the battle while the strings and the truss rod "won" - i.e. the wood gave up and split.

Check this out: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/TrussRods.aspx

Now - I've never seen a truss rod crack a neck before. I don't think anyone who's made a comment on this thread has ever seen it. I've never even read about it in a bunch of guitar repair books. And you would think, that if the rod did break the neck - fixing that neck probably wouldn't work because that insane mutant truss rod would likely break the neck again.

Edit - but even that's not right, because then the wood would have split behind the nut instead of infront of it. So no, I do not think the truss rod had anything to do with the damage to this neck.

Could a crack be so slight as to not be see or felt? I guess it would depend on the person doing the inspection, but... maybe?