7th batch

[tonemonster]

"Look at me - I have a delay pedal!"

AWESOME!!!!!!!!

[Snoogans]

Guys I don't get:

Adrian Belew
Robert Fripp

I got barred from a guitar messageboard for my outspoken views on Robert Fripp! <coughpretentiouswankercough>

At least Adrian Belew did some great work with Zappa, and appears to have a sense of humour.

[Rupe]

So, nobody has anything to say against these guys who are sure that anything over $2K buys you nothing but hype? Really? Ok, I'll take the bullet

As an owner of 30+ guitars (including Anderson) and former dealer, I can say that it's no where near as cut and dried as some of you (especially "tonemonster") would like to believe.

There IS a difference. I have yet to play an Anderson, Suhr, or Tyler (add others here...Grosch, MacInturff, DiPinto, Sadowsky, etc) that had anything other than impeccable fit and finish. In order to get that type of quality, a builder pays significantly more for nothing but the highest quality materials and components...and then adds a great deal of hand work to the final equation to make sure every instrument is perfect. Additionally, the selection of the actual pieces of wood that will make up the final intruemnt are also heavily scrutinized for tone, weight, resonance, aesthetics, etc. That's far more than you get from Gibson, Fender, or even Jackson/Charvel...and I'm speaking custom instruments, not production line stuff.

Is that difference worth the premium that you pay? That's really up to the buyer. I'll agree that all too frequently somebody buys one of those brands based on image and "wow-factor" and not because of any pereived benefits inherent in the brand...I have no time for that type of player/collector and thats not who I'm talking about. Rather, I speak in terms of the working musician...gigging and/or recording.

To use my '96 Anderson as an example, I have yet to have to adjust the neck or file down any sharp fret ends...and that includes moving from PA to CO and back to PA in a 5 year span. Nearly all of my other guitars needed some sort of work after those extreme climate changes (except for my Rands were are Anderson built and my old '76 LP Custom). My current #1 ('91 Jem 77BFP...not a cheap guitar by any means) has put me through hell with the moves, but the neck finally seems to be settled.

I also speak of the more basic models when I say that they are worth their price...obviously you can get some serious upcharges for non-functional "improvements" like fancy woods and hardware. You can get in the game with an Anderson or Suhr for around $2K if you skip the "bling".

And one final comment regarding this post:

I hear you Newc on the grover thing, but the only difference is, back then Jackson guitars WERE that much better than the competition so the prices were justified! everyone else was putting out less than stellar quality.

Are you kidding me???!!! Yeah, Charvel/Jackson made some great guitars, but they were very "hit-or-miss"...I have come across some real dogs over the years...moreso from the esteemed "San Dimas" years than any other. They had absolutely nothing over the high end BC Richs, Schecters, Deans, and Hamers of the day IMO.

[Grandturk]

So, nobody has anything to say against these guys who are sure that anything over $2K buys you nothing but hype? Really? Ok, I'll take the bullet

I'll never begrudge anyone spending any amount of money on anything. Its all scalable - my $2000 is someone else's $500.

To be clear, I also said that at a certain price point, you're getting into diminishing returns in terms of playability and sound.

[Rupe]

To be clear, I also said that at a certain price point, you're getting into diminishing returns in terms of playability and sound.

That is absolutely true in my experience as well

[tonemonster]

well, the bottom line is, its all based on opinion. one mans junk is another mans treasure. especially when it comes to women. when it comes to value, there is NO way you can convince me that a guitar is worth more than 2K. not when most of the professional grade guitars on the market sell for that. I have played PRS, and Suhr and I cannot for the life of me see how they can justify 3, 4, 5, 6 or even 7 grand for their guitars. no way. no way are they worth that money. sure, they are great guitars, damn fine instruments, but they just arent worth 5 K more than a jackson, Fender, Gibson, etc.....

if we are going to sit and pick gnat shit out of pepper, I am sure you can say well, the density of wood on guitar A is better than the wood on guitar B because Mr. Suhr went into the forest himself and fought off 3 grizzly bears and a drunken indian to hand select the tree this guitar was built from...... and the flame is better on this PRS than it is on this Jackson because Paul doinked his wife on top of the wood pile that this veneer was piled in one night in the shop after hours on their anniversary and spilled wine on the wood wich gave it this special visual "texture". but thats all to each persons personal preferences. PRS guitars have no floyds, to me, thats an automatic scratch off the list. so they are of no use to me. Suhr guitars, no matter how good they look, how great the materials are, or how impeccable the craftsmanship is, its not worth 3K more than a Jackson in my eyes. no way. not ever. In my eyes Jackson simply has the best going out there for features, quality and value. I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of dimishing returns that was mentioned here earlier. there just isnt 3K more worth of value in workmanship and materials in those PRS and Suhr guitars.

we can argue this till the cows come home and not get anywhere. its like politics, gun control, abortion, and religion. everyone has their beliefs and most arent willing to accept alternative ideas or viewpoints. Having viewed, handled, and played Suhr and PRS guitars, (seen andersons but never played them) you can never ever convince me they are worth 3K more than a Jackson.

The true reason they get those prices is effective marketing. the mystique of a better guitar just because they charge 5K for one. it must be better right? right guys? right? I mean my neighbor cant own one, so it got to be good. I can easily afford a PRS or a Anderson or Suhr. bout the only PRS I cant afford is a dragon. I can buy one, but dont see the value in it.

but call me lucky I guess, cuz every Jackson I own is of impeccable fit and finish. every one. I own 14 of them now, so I guess I lucked out 14 times and didnt get a "hit or miss" one that you speak of.

in the end, its all personal opinion.

[Flatpicker]

So, nobody has anything to say against these guys who are sure that anything over $2K buys you nothing but hype? Really?

No.
But it was not worth getting into it as it's all subjective..
I love my Suhr's and love my Charvel CS and my Jacksons.
Love my Hamer's too.

But,
Also love my MIK Schecter and my MIM Strat.

They are different strokes though.

[BenoA]

Funny how that thread has evolved!

[Rupe]

It seems to me that there is a bit of pricing misconception. You can get a great Anderson or Suhr for under $3K new...Suhr even has a production model that streets for well under $2k new. That is not substantially more than a new Jackson. In fact, I bet if I spec'd out a Dinky the way I wanted it, it would be as much if not more than a similar Anderson/Suhr. When you start getting into the $5K+ guitars, you're no longer paying for tone and quality, you are paying for bells and whistles (woods/graphics/hardware/etc).

Tonemonster brings up the key word in this discussion...value. There's no arguing about a higher standard of fit and finish for the guitars in question. Whether or not a player values those differences enough to pay a premium for them is purely subjective.

[Matt_B]

we can argue this till the cows come home

Oh, the cows aren't coming home. They called and told me so.

Perceived value is subjective and that's what effective marketing enhances. It makes you think its worth more so you will pay more. Some people buy into the hype and others do not.

Many of us know how inexpensive it can be to build a guitar from parts, especially if you're patient and shop around. When you factor in the cost of parts at wholesale, it gets incredibly cheap to produce a guitar.

Yes, one does pay a certain price for a name because brands carry with them a certain amount of respect and cache' whereas others do not.

[Grandturk]

Many of us know how inexpensive it can be to build a guitar from parts, especially if you're patient and shop around. When you factor in the cost of parts at wholesale, it gets incredibly cheap to produce a guitar.

Well now you're talking about something a bit different, right? Everyone that we've been talking about builds their own parts... right? Right?!

[tonemonster]

Shit! you mean this arguement is over????? DAMMIT!!! I was looking forward to more of this!