San Dimas Floyd setup question!

[dragoneti]

Hello everybody!

I'm a member of this forum for quite some time as have been an onwer of a jackson RR3. Few days ago i purchased another guitar (my fifth electric...:P ), this time a MIA charvel San Dimas style 1 2H and i have a question (actually two ) about its floyd rose.

As i have noticed, the neck has an angle to facilitate the floyd to be floating, but i prefer it to be flush to the body, at the moment the floyd is setup to rest about 1mm above (to achieve proper string action) and parallel to the body (and i have installed a tremol-no to have it locked as a fixed bridge as i don't like tremolos to be floating).

If i set it flush to the body, which i want, the action is too low, actually the strings touch the frets. As i have read on the net, the solution is to shim the saddles? and can the saddles be raised 1mm to compensate the lower tremolo height? should i also add another shim (i think it has one be default) to the floyd's baseplate or the saddle's shims are enough?

And my second question, although i have read some posts here, i have (its on my rr3 ath the moment) a chrome OFR (germany), should i replace the one on my charvel with it or leave the stock one? I know their are supposed to be of the same quality but if there is even a slight improvement in tone, use or "looks" (body is black) then why not, its about 10 minutes of work to replace it!

Thank you all in advance for your answers!!

Stelios.

[Axewielder]

You wouldn't want to shim the neck, you would want to remove the shim that is there (assuming there is one).

[dragoneti]

No, i don't want to shim the neck, the neck is permantly shimed by the angle of the neck pocket, it is by design. I want, or at least this is what i have read, to shim the floyd's saddles to raise them to keep the string action proper.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I have yet to see a Pro Mod with a shim in the neck pocket. They are intentionally routed with a steeper angle to get the tremolo up off the body.

You would need to shim the neck pocket at the front rather than at the heel, to take some of the angle out, or have it re-routed with less angle (by a pro).

I suppose you could shim the saddles, but the end result is going to be that the saddles will still be at the same height.

I have to ask based on that, why you want to do this... You see, if you shim the saddles your hand will be in the same "spot" it is now, so, if the "feel" is the problem, I don't think that's a good solution for you.

If you just want the tremolo set up "dive-only" and the actual height isn't an issue, I suggest you get one of the 42mm brass "big block" tremolo blocks from floydupgrades.com because you will NOT have any pull-back with that block and the tremolo will set up "dive only" with a huge hunk of brass pressed up against the wood.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

No, i don't want to shim the neck, the neck is permantly shimed by the angle of the neck pocket, it is by design. I want, or at least this is what i have read, to shim the floyd's saddles to raise them to keep the string action proper.

Why do you want the bridge flush to the guitar?

If it is so that the tremolo is dive only then see my previous suggestion on the 42mm block.

Hope that makes sense.

[dragoneti]

No feel is ok, i have no problem with it, just i want a dive only tremolo, and i think that flush to the body will have a better tone than be in the air with a tremol-no locking it.

I already have a stock 42 block somewhere in my room, although i see that this from floydupgrades.com is bigger?

[Incster]

when I changed to a Schaller Floyd (nothing wrong with the factory supplied one, just had it lying around) I had to shim the neck to get acceptable action. I only shim saddles for subtle (< 1mm) adjustments, because if the saddle screws don't go deep enough you increase the probability of stripping them and that's a bigger PITA than a shimmed neck.

[Axewielder]

I'm really suspicious of these flimsy looking tremolo blocker products. I can't see how you can expect to get good coupling from the bridge to the body with these. The easiest and best thing to do is glue a big ass block of wood to the body in front of the sustain block. That will give you your dive-only trem and better tone.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

No feel is ok, i have no problem with it, just i want a dive only tremolo, and i think that flush to the body will have a better tone than be in the air with a tremol-no locking it.

I already have a stock 42 block somewhere in my room, although i see that this from floydupgrades.com is bigger?

Hell yes, the brass upgrade ones are BIG. I had 42mm on a Pro Mod mutt and the tremolo was BARELY leaned back from parallel with the body, and the block was resting against the wood in the route.

I think it will get you what you want! It worked great for me.

I'm really suspicious of these flimsy looking tremolo blocker products. I can't see how you can expect to get good coupling from the bridge to the body with these. The easiest and best thing to do is glue a big ass block of wood to the body in front of the sustain block. That will give you your dive-only trem and better tone.

Me, too. I use a block of wood usually. I bought the big 42mm block more for the "added mass" and the "dive-only" result was unexpected but once I heard how it sounded, I was more than willing to live with the loss of pull-up.

[Axewielder]

Hell yes, the brass upgrade ones are BIG. I had 42mm on a Pro Mod mutt and the tremolo was BARELY leaned back from parallel with the body, and the block was resting against the wood in the route.

I think it will get you what you want! It worked great for me.



Me, too. I use a block of wood usually. I bought the big 42mm block more for the "added mass" and the "dive-only" result was unexpected but once I heard how it sounded, I was more than willing to live with the loss of pull-up.

I think this is going to vary from guitar to guitar. I put a big block in one of my Jackson strats with a non-recessed trem, and didn't lose any pullup. :think:

[dragoneti]

So to avoid shiming the saddles in fear that it may strip the screws uh? What if i use an extra shim to the baseplate?

Tremol-no does a good job locking the bridge, i have used it with my rr3 and now with my charvel, the bridge is solidly fixed (i have used it only as a fixed bridge, not dive only, i'm not much of a tremolo man in general), but i think that flush to the body will be better tonewise and at the same time to have the ability to occasionally use the tremolo if needed.

I don't want to do any permanent mods to the body such as a glue in block etc. The fact is that the guitar at the moment is more than satisfying in terms of playbility and tone, i just searching to see if i can make it better without really messing with it (all my guitars and amps are far from stock).

[dragoneti]

I think i will try the big block upgrade...the thing is to buy a 42 or a 37 mm in height? the one tha came with tha guitar is 37. i think width wise are the same?

[moku]

As i have noticed, the neck has an angle to facilitate the floyd to be floating, but i prefer it to be flush to the body, at the moment the floyd is setup to rest about 1mm above (to achieve proper string action) and parallel to the body (and i have installed a tremol-no to have it locked as a fixed bridge as i don't like tremolos to be floating).

If i set it flush to the body, which i want, the action is too low, actually the strings touch the frets. As i have read on the net, the solution is to shim the saddles? and can the saddles be raised 1mm to compensate the lower tremolo height?

yes, it's possible. there are various saddle shim heights for sale on the internet.

other alternatives:

1) shim the locknut. these shims come in different heights as well.
2) if the strings are resting completely on the neck, from 1st to the 22nd fret, then shimming (even up to 3 mm) is not going to help. the neck is probablly back bowed and in need of some relief. this means you'll have to loosen the truss rod a bit. sometimes this is sufficient and you won't need shims. sometimes after adding relief to the neck you just need a 1 mm shim.

should i also add another shim (i think it has one be default) to the floyd's baseplate or the saddle's shims are enough?

it should be enough. just to note, if you have it flush on the body, your ability to do dives only is also going to be effected. setting a floyd flush to the bbody (with a big brass block) is really for tone, and especially for those who don't use the floyd that much.

And my second question, although i have read some posts here, i have (its on my rr3 ath the moment) a chrome OFR (germany), should i replace the one on my charvel with it or leave the stock one? I know their are supposed to be of the same quality but if there is even a slight improvement in tone, use or "looks" (body is black) then why not, its about 10 minutes of work to replace it!

Thank you all in advance for your answers!!

Stelios.

well, the stock one is black? if i were to replace it, i would replace it w/ a black OFR, not a chrome one. the OFR is made in west germany by schaller (stamped "made in germany" on the beck of the baseplate). it's top quality. best floyd out there, and hold up after decades of use. some newer floyd rose (not called OFR) that come with new charvels are not made by schaller. i believe they're made in korea.

either way i dont think you can hear a tonal difference, especially when the guitar is plugged in the amp. the tone of a guitar comes primarily from the body wood and neck wood. other things--pickups, tremolo, etc.--only adds to or subtract from it.

hope this helps!

[Grandturk]

I think all of that "Floyd flush on the body = more tone" is mostly bullshit. YMMV

[dragoneti]

Thank you again for your answers!!

No the strings are not resting completely on the neck just a little towards the 22 fret (if i remember correctly... ).

The neck is setup perfectly with its relief, i have taken measurements and its just right, it was the first thing i looked when i brought the guitar home.

If i shim the nut wouldn't this create a high action on the 1 fret while not affecting the latter ones?

Yeah i know the the dive of the tremolo is going to be restricted also...but i rarely use the tremolo...at the moments is completely blocked with tremol-no. So the flush to the body and big block seems the best solution for me (while retaining the tremolno for when i want a fixed bridge).

I asked about the OFR (german) because i have one but its in chrome, i'm not going to give another 150 euros to buy another unless is a dramatic change in tone... although here i have read that many want to have it in chrome when with a black body...but its a visual preference.