Truss rod nut is tight - neck still needs straightening

[tonemonster]

I gotcha, but I just misunderstood.

[alanhindle]

I have an old but very nice '86 Yamaha SE350. Yamaha have incorporated a small rectangular rout between the bridge single coil and the end of the neck which is filled by a plastic block which you have to unscrew to reveal the end of the truss rod under the fingerboard. However, you can't get the Allen wrench in just yet. For that you also have to remove the bridge pickup from its cavity (you have to block the trem as described above and the manoeuvre the pup out by squashing the foam underneath it). NB. The wires still remain attached to the pup - you just have to rest the pup on its side underneath the strings. Once the pup is out you can make an adjustment to the rod, quickly pop the pup back in the cavity, unblock the trem and then check the adjustment. If it's not quite right you quickly re-block, pop the pup out again and make another truss rod tweak.

Alan

[jrnic]

I have a similar problem on my San Dimas 1 also. I noticed that even after I remove the neck to make a neck adjustment, after I make the adjustment, I put everything back together, I tighten the strings to pitch and then check the neck again. To my surprise, the neck doesn't even look like I adjusted it. I don't want to tighten it anymore. It's livable so I'm not complaining but I thought it was just me.

PS: When I make neck adjustments I don't take the neck off. I usually just take out the bottom 2 neck screws and loosen the top 2 (of course after loosening the strings!) and then just tilt the neck out of the pocket enough to reach the adjustment screw. Works fine for me.

[alanhindle]

I have a similar problem on my San Dimas 1 also. I noticed that even after I remove the neck to make a neck adjustment, after I make the adjustment, I put everything back together, I tighten the strings to pitch and then check the neck again. To my surprise, the neck doesn't even look like I adjusted it. I don't want to tighten it anymore. It's livable so I'm not complaining but I thought it was just me.

I've not made any TR adjustments to my SD 1 yet. There is a reasonable amount of relief (measuring 0.06" at fret 9, D string) but I am tempted to adjust to zero relief and then drop the action a bit more.

So, can somebody clarify this for me:

AFAIK neck relief is only really needed if you are a more heavy-handed chord basher because relief prevents buzz in the middle of the neck caused by the eliptical pattern of string vibration. If you play with higher gain amp settings and hence don't need such an aggressive twangy approach to your play compared to, say, a blues or country player then an absolutely straight neck will allow you to get the action lower and be buzz free when fretting individual notes, particularly in the fret 15-22 area?

In other words, is relief desirable to prevent open string buzz for heavy pickers and a straight neck desirable to prevent fretting buzz (assuming that the frets are well levelled too) for light pickers?

Alan

[alanhindle]

It could be other things...such as a binding truss rod that just simply needs loosened up...but just in case...!!!!

Mike

Hi Bionic,

Do you mean by binding that the nut has caught the thread wrong and feels tight when it shouldn't be? In that case is the fix to mark the original positio with a marker pen, remove the nut, grease and tighten back up.

Also, can you clarify whether the nut tightens against wood or whether it tightens against some kind of metal plate which then distributes the force against a broader area of wood.

Alan

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

The secret is to stuff something under the Floyd, slack the strings and then lock the nut so the strings don't come off. Then you pop the neck off and adjust.

When you tune back up, you should be right in the neighborhood of in-tune because you blocked the Floyd from pulling all the way back.

I just pop the springs off the tremolo (no back plate) and go to town.

I don't even need to tune it when I put it back together.

[Grandturk]

I just pop the springs off the tremolo (no back plate) and go to town.

Yeah - that's an option - but I always have trouble with getting those pesky springs back on.

[AndyK]

A straight neck will buzz, period. You need a tiny bit of relief so the vibrating string doesn't rattle against the frets. You also need a higher action with a straight neck, which I like.

I hate too much relief. It makes the guitar feel like it's working against you! Tonight I will remove the neck, and take the truss rod nut off, to see what's behind there, and maybe put a few metal washers in to see if that gives me more adjustment room.

[MetalMedal II]

Man, I remember now why I dread heel-side truss rod adjustments....PITA!!! I know 99% time they hardly need adjusting...but still.

And that Yamaha described above...WTF?!

[Chad]

I have an old but very nice '86 Yamaha SE350. Yamaha have incorporated a small rectangular rout between the bridge single coil and the end of the neck which is filled by a plastic block which you have to unscrew to reveal the end of the truss rod under the fingerboard. However, you can't get the Allen wrench in just yet. For that you also have to remove the bridge pickup from its cavity (you have to block the trem as described above and the manoeuvre the pup out by squashing the foam underneath it). NB. The wires still remain attached to the pup - you just have to rest the pup on its side underneath the strings. Once the pup is out you can make an adjustment to the rod, quickly pop the pup back in the cavity, unblock the trem and then check the adjustment. If it's not quite right you quickly re-block, pop the pup out again and make another truss rod tweak.

Alan

A feature so convenient that it is inconvenient!

[Chad]

A straight neck will buzz, period. You need a tiny bit of relief so the vibrating string doesn't rattle against the frets. You also need a higher action with a straight neck, which I like.

I hate too much relief. It makes the guitar feel like it's working against you! Tonight I will remove the neck, and take the truss rod nut off, to see what's behind there, and maybe put a few metal washers in to see if that gives me more adjustment room.

I know several players get away with a straight neck, but I have tried it and it never works for me. I almost always end up around .010" to .012" relief. And I run my action about 4/64" on low E and 3.5/64" on the high E measured at 12th fret with no capo in place. I don't really consider myself that heavy handed, but I must be....a straight neck is always buzz city for me no matter how nice the fretwork is.

[alanhindle]

A feature so convenient that it is inconvenient!

It's actually not as bad as I seem to have first described it. You just unscrew three screws (one for the plastic insert and two for the neck pup cover) which is really no worse than a Gibson Truss rod cover. Then it's just a 10 second job to block the trem and whip the pickup out. Before you know it you're in there with the Allen wrench.

The advantage is no removal of the neck and/or detuning so you can quickly check your tweaks.

[AndyK]

UPDATE! I installed two small washers around the truss rod, and that gave the Fender style nut more room to grab. That solved the problem, and now my neck is perfectly adjusted!

[MetalMedal II]

UPDATE! I installed two small washers around the truss rod, and that gave the Fender style nut more room to grab. That solved the problem, and now my neck is perfectly adjusted!

Sweet! Now put down the hack saw!

[tonemonster]

awesome!!!!!! Great to hear this!