The great floyd rose debate continues

[veniculum]

I probably should be posting this in a different forum, however, because I'm strictly interested (and playing) the new Charvel production models, I'm going to post here.

I've been doing quite a bit of research on this, and realize that this has been covered quite extensively on this website alone...not to mention probably hundreds of other sites. Here's just one thread of many...which was very informative...

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103729&highlight=floyd+rose

Anyway, I've only been a Charvel owner (again) for the last month and a half or so, and my only real gripe with these guitars is the Floyd they're using. It seems that no matter what, higher end guitars with Floyd Rose (styled) trems are sold as "original" Floyd Rose..."licensed" doesn't really apply anymore, does it???. So lets say, for example, you pick up a DiMartini model, it's going to come with an "original" floyd...I assume that means it's coming with a German made Schaller (or equivalent in terms of quality of build and materials). It seems that one way a guitar company can cut costs a little is to put a Korean or Asian made (lower quality) trem on said guitars. Charvel seems to be following this pattern.

Now it has been my experience that you get what you pay for...as cliche as that sounds...that's always seemed to be the case with anything I've purchased...especially when it comes to guitars. A good example would be my Ibanez J-Custom...this thing has a high quality "edge pro" trem. This thing is a rock...you can beat the living shit out of this thing and it never goes out of tune. It's a pain in the ass to tune up, but once dialed in, it's IN.
While the floyd rose trems on the pro mod Charvels aren't bad...they're definitely not of the quality of some trems I've used in the past...including that Ibanez.

Unfortunately, I don't have the skill-set to install/re-install lots of different trems...I don't do setups, and my only real skills with a guitar include changing strings and playing them. I guess where I'm going with this is, what are your thoughts on the trems used on the pro mod Charvels...are you guys content with them...or do you feel that you have sacrificed quality for a lower price point? I'm seriously considering having a higher quality Floyd installed on both my Charvels. The only problem is, I really don't have too much of a basis of comparison....other than that IBZ that I mentioned above, the last time I had a guitar with a Floyd was my old Kramer Nightswan...which definitely had an "original" floyd rose....hell...that guitar came with a floyd user manual with a picture of Kramer's president at the time, Eddie Van Halen, Floyd Rose, and one or two other guys if I remember correctly (I searched for that photo, but can't find it).
Anyway...I'd sure love to hear your thoughts. I'm not trying to stir up any real debates here...I just want to know if you think that the quality of the "original" floyds are worth the money. Funny thing is, I've gone to a number of my local music stores lately (including Guitar Center) and the guys working there think that the floyd on my Charvel SD 1 and 2 are "original"...which they obviously are not...or at least are not the top of the line models.
Sorry for such a long post...I just want to know that if I spring for a higher quality trem, it's really going to make that much of a difference. The ones I have now are ok...but they don't thrill me.
Thanks guys.

Todd

[jmh151]

I have both and I have been switching and Pro Mod Floyd and MIG Floyd out of the same guitar. The MIG model seems to have a more solid whammy bar and more solid feel. Tone wise, ability to stay in tune, they are both the same. Having tried both, I wouldn't bother upgrading to a MIG Floyd, but I would install a Big Block or Tungsten block on both.

[Grandturk]

OK - first - the MIK Floyds are "original" Floyds. They are produced for the Floyd Rose company, sold as Floyd Rose tremolos, and are not licensed.

So using the word "original" to describe MIG Floyds is misleading and erroneous.

Now, if we could get guitar manufacturers to note that they are using a Schaller-made in Germany Floyd vs. a Made in Korea Floyd, then we would have some clarity around the situation.

Now, IMO, the MIK Floyd is a good trem. I've had two ProMods with them, and have found them to be good trem units that stay in tune. The only consistant problem I've got with the MIK Floyd is the bar, which is a $15 fix.

That said, I have replaced both with MIG Floyds - one because of color and one because of convenience.

The only thing I haven't done with a MIK Floyd is played one for 20 years. Time will be the ulitimate test of the MIK Floyd. If they're still working in 20 years, then they will have passed the test.

[Trem]

I have floyds from the late 80's, 90's and 2000's they're all the same.
There is no noticeable difference in any of them, even a newer ping made floyd original. Not saying they are "great" per se cause i have my gripes, but.
The best "original" one i had was a true original before they had the bar assembly as it is now, those imo were better than the floyds today.

I have a charvel stamped schaller with the inserts, that thing i would say is better. The base plate almost seems twice as thick and has a good feel and strong tone.

As far as how long they last ect, well there on the guitars this long and are in perfect order.

however heavy heavy abuse i don't do anymore really so..

[Grandturk]

Unfortunately, I don't have the skill-set to install/re-install lots of different trems...I don't do setups, and my only real skills with a guitar include changing strings and playing them.

Honestly, swapping a Floyd on these guitars is very easy, and you should at least learn how to set the intonation on a Floyd, as that is just about the only thing you'll need to do when swapping the trem - and you can eyeball it and be very close. You might need to adjust the spring tension, but that's it.

[veniculum]

The only consistant problem I've got with the MIK Floyd is the bar, which is a $15 fix.

Just curious...what problem is that? On every guitar that I've had over the years that had a floyd rose, I've had the same screw-on bar (other than my Ibanez edge pro)..and I don't really recall ever havng a prblem with it. Just curious, once again.
Thanks!

Todd

[Newc]

Some folks are noticing a bit more wobble with the Korean bars. This could be due to a wider tolerance between the threads of the collar and the mounting shaft. Buying a new bar+mounting shaft assembly takes care of this, but IMO there's not enough excess wobble to quantify that. At least, none of the 6 I have required it. One came without a bar whatsoever, so I was forced to buy a new bar+collar. Comparing that one to another complete assembly, I see very little difference in wobble. Not enough to force a replacement of them.

I would like to replace a couple of the locking nuts for German-made, since I'm noticing some slippage on guitars that simply sit for weeks on end.

However, this has long been a problem with import nuts, and even the guitars that have genuine Schaller-made trems (Schaller JT590 style and Schaller-made OFRs) also show signs of tuning issues.

As well, I live in a manufactured home with poorly insulated walls, and store my guitars on a stand next to an outer wall. The drastic temps we've been having lately could be a factor.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Short and to the point: Unless you want a different color hardware, I don't think it's worth paying ~$200 to replace the Korean Floyd.

[Grandturk]

+1

Except for the bar, which needs to be replaced.

[dg]

I have a charvel stamped schaller with the inserts, that thing i would say is better. The base plate almost seems twice as thick and has a good feel and strong tone.

Not to derail the thread, but the reason the baseplate is so thick on the Schaller Floyd/FRII/Jackson JT-590 is because it's made of relatively soft diecast metal and needs that extra bulk for strength. It's still a great trem, and there are people who like it better than an OFR. I'm just saying that the thick plate isn't something that makes it better than a floyd with a thinner steel baseplate.

[RobRR]

While I dont play my socal much, I play my RR24M all the time, every practice, every show. It has the same Korean floyd as the socals, and the trem bar is WAY too lose. It doesent matter how much you tighten it, it will work lose in about 5 minutes. As a matter of fact, I lost the original bar at a show one night, it just flew away!

[Leezo]

Having tried both, I wouldn't bother upgrading to a MIG Floyd, but I would install a Big Block or Tungsten block on both.

Now you got me thinking...I've read many positive reviews for the big block.
i couldn't find a tungsten block but found brass blocks for about $35 or titanium blocks for $180+

Can anyone give me some more advice on fitting a big block to my SD1?

There seem to be different sizes and also an 'L' block, can i fit any of these?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

You want a 37mm for the Pro Mod if you want to be able to pull up on the tremolo.

You can use a 42MM but the tremolo will NOT tilt back. I don't know about the "L" block, never tried one.

[Rockinloud]

I have two Pro Mods, one I've had for almost a year now. I've had zero problems with either one. I have several other guitars with OFR German models and really see no difference other than the slight play in the bar which really hasn't bothered me too much. I did add Big Blocks on each and really like what they did for the tone.

[Leezo]

You want a 37mm for the Pro Mod if you want to be able to pull up on the tremolo.

You can use a 42MM but the tremolo will NOT tilt back. I don't know about the "L" block, never tried one.

Thanks...
I have an EVH D Tuna fitted so can only dive anyway...
Do ya think there will be much difference in tone between the 37 and 42mm?