all-access heel

[xenophobe]

For me it's not a matter of where my thumb wrests... but where the fleshy part of my palm at the base of my fingertips.... it rests over an angled neck plate much better allowing me better high register access on the bass strings...

[shreddermon]

Agree with Xeno that, when that high up on the fretboard, my hand switches position so my thumb is no longer on the back of the neck. It's out front, and pressure and "grip" is more provided by the top of the palm closest to my fingers. But, since my thumb is no longer back there, I've got no problem with an old-style blocky heel. For me, it's not actually blocking anything. So, while those new angled neck plates etc are nice, I don't go out of my way seeking them. I guess it's just one of those playing techniques that some of us learned through the years or prefer, and some haven't/don't.

[Number Of The Priest]

"Out in front", so your thumb is basically next to your index finger?

I never even thought of that before... I wonder if I should try it, and maybe incorporate my thumb into my soloing

[xenophobe]

Agree with Xeno that, when that high up on the fretboard, my hand switches position so my thumb is no longer on the back of the neck. It's out front, and pressure and "grip" is more provided by the top of the palm closest to my fingers. But, since my thumb is no longer back there, I've got no problem with an old-style blocky heel. For me, it's not actually blocking anything. So, while those new angled neck plates etc are nice, I don't go out of my way seeking them. I guess it's just one of those playing techniques that some of us learned through the years or prefer, and some haven't/don't.

Yeah, for me, any little bit like the Fender I have is just enough relief for my thumb to make higher register access easier than a standard heel. I don't need it either, but I do notice it just enough while playing. If I were to order a bolt on, I would definitely ask for the option, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

[rjohnstone]

The photo xenophobe posted is a nice illustration of what's possible, but what is the purpose of a neck heel that still has a sharp boundary between the neck itself and the body?

Your thumb is still going to collide at the corner with where the maple meets the red paint.

Who is actually lifting their thumb off the back of the neck and planting it in the neckplate to reach high frets? Maybe I have small hands and I cannot grab the heel/neckplate to solo up high... my thumb is condemned to always sit on the neck itself.

You can make that neck joint thinner and thinner, but I feel like it won't matter until it's actually FLUSH with the neck (like a ramp), or the hard boundary is sculpted in a manner that mitigates the abrupt "stop" your thumb experiences when playing up high.

Of the two brands (Jackson and Charvel), Charvel strikes me as too "traditional" to stray from its roots as a hod-rodded Fender, especially when building classic Strat-style guitars (not counting the Charvel Model 5, Model 6, 550XL, and the other neckthru Charvel "Soloists"). I feel like the square heel will always remain in some form in the Charvel DNA.

Jackson, the more "progressive" of the two brands, has recently offered a 3-bolt joint with slight sculpting (first photo below). I haven't played one yet, but I can imagine the thumb slides UNDER the heel to aid reaching the high frets. I applaud the progress as a step in the right direction, but it's nearly 30 years behind brands like Ibanez who debuted their own All Access Neck Joint in 1987 (second photo below).

Ibanez used this heel in 1987...
IMG_3817sm.jpg

The AANJ heel came around 89-90.

[Number Of The Priest]

AANJ debuted on the Maxxas guitar in 1987. I should have specified... my fault.

[rjohnstone]

AANJ debuted on the Maxxas guitar in 1987. I should have specified... my fault.

True...

[shreddermon]

"Out in front", so your thumb is basically next to your index finger?

I never even thought of that before... I wonder if I should try it, and maybe incorporate my thumb into my soloing

It worked for Jeff Watson. LOL

[toejam]

"Out in front", so your thumb is basically next to your index finger?

I position my thumb the same way when up that high on the neck. Mark Morton from Lamb of God has a similar technique.

[Black Shadow]

Meh, not an issue on my neck thru guitars. I have fairly big hands, so I'm not concerned with this, anyway.

If you want the most extreme version of the sleek bolt-on concept, checkout the Washburn N4 (Nuno) with Stephens Extended Cutaway. It's a bit too thin for my taste; I like the traditional feel of a 4-bolt neck plate as an anchor for my hand, as well as the extra resonance from having more wood. But you have all the access you could ever dream of!

If I couldn't live without it, I don't think the Ibanez AANJ concept can be beaten.

[algeriet]

I'm real disappointed in the new Charvel Pro Mod line's Tele style without the 4-bolt neck plate. To me it takes away the whole charm and "hot rod" vibe that I associate with Charvel. Now its not hot rodded anymore because its built from the ground up to be super slick. More of a Jackson thing if you ask me.

[metalchurch79]

The square heel Ibanez were from 1986-93 and the AANJ were from 1994-present. I had a chance to play one of these 3bolt DK2s and it felt really nice, but not all that much different than an ESP or even my old Gunslinger. It is nice to see Jackson make some changes moving forward, so hopefully this trend continues so they remain competitive.

[metalhobo]

Never had an issue with a Charvel neck heel or old Fender neck heel or Gibson neck joint.
Then again I never blamed the guitar or its design for my lack of playing skills.

yeh. I have small trump hands and on my charvel I have no trouble drawing a wide vibrato on the 22nd fret bent up to high e or even 1.5 steps up to f. I play light gauge strings though, so who knows. if you practice with the heel, you will play well with the heel. who cares if it's kind of uncomfortable, you're not sitting up there for very long, anyway.

[TKEblue]

The only guitars I've played where the heel is an issue are PRS. Love them but will never own one because I just can't get over the heel.

The new style heel does feel better, and if I were having a guitar made, I would go that route. Otherwise standard neck plate is fine.

My thumb also never leaves the neck, but my lower palm and the part of my palm my thumb protrudes from (what is this even called? Lol) does rest on the heel. Thinner heel means my fingers have more room to work comfortably with the pads on my palm actually being free so it's like my fingers are longer, and like Xeno said, makes reaching the low strings much easier.

As for charvel, I guess it's a little strange, but I doubt anyone complains about having better access. I've never owned a bolt on without a neck plate, my biggest concern about it would be structural integrity, but I doubt even that is an issue.