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**shreddermon** · 08-09-2005, 08:11 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

Many poeple will believe only what they want to believe. And then they'll try to pass that off as "fact". But it's all opinions. And no sense trying to convince someone else of your's, if they're not open-minded enough to actually listen to another point of view. Time better spent doing other things, bro.

**VinceV** · 08-09-2005, 09:04 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

These were the threads I was referring to in my other EVH post. I love how none of those guys have even held one, yet they have all these opinions about them. I also find it funny that they seem to have access to GC and MF sales records, "they are not selling, that is why they discount them". Shit we can't even get an answer to about how many have been made/will be made from the Jackson reps here.

**hippietim** · 08-09-2005, 09:22 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

Well, I own an Art Series EVH, a very nice Wolfie and have played numerous EBMM EVH's and the Charvel is my favorite. But, I wouldn't dimiss any of those other guitars - they are all very well made guitars that sound quite good. FWIW, I like the neck on the Wolfie better than the EBMM. I've never found an EBMM EVH that I could get attached to.

**markD** · 08-09-2005, 09:37 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

they all seem like idiots. i read all of that stuff, and while i'd personally can't afford one, i have played some (shawn's and a local dealers) and they are GREAT guitars.

**eddyrox** · 08-09-2005, 10:02 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

awww.... you guys are great.....(sniff, sniff)......makes me wanna give everyone a group hug!.........

**guitar08man** · 08-09-2005, 11:34 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

im a member there, and i tend not to get in those type of arguments. Alot of people there dont have one and still argue which kinda confuses me... [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

**eddyrox** · 08-09-2005, 12:52 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

[ QUOTE ]
im a member there, and i tend not to get in those type of arguments. Alot of people there dont have one and still argue which kinda confuses me... [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]IMHO, it appears as if most of the posters participating in the guitar threads of the VH "fan" sites not only lack the opportunity to play an Art Series, but lack the experience to comment on guitars in general. Kinda harsh, I realize. I guess I'm tired of some folks coming off as "authoritative" when they are anything but. I also realize it's JUST a bulletin board. However, so much of the information we're influenced by these days originates from such bulletin boards and chat rooms. Just a reminder to validate everything you read before acting on it!

**777** · 08-09-2005, 09:15 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

[ QUOTE ]
...and what a bunch of ignorant, hyperbole-spewing, 2nd generation information perpetuating, mother FUCKING douche bags!

[img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=27463

[img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img] http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/show...2&page=2&pp=15

[img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img] It looks like me and wolfgangbob are the only 2 guys on the attached threads that have a FUCKING clue about EVH's signature guitars. IMHO, the Ernie Ball Music Man is a mere "prototype" (lacks an arch top, d-tuna, tone knob, smaller neck radius, no UV protection in paint) compared to the Wolfgang (I've got 2 of each EBMM and PV lines), and the EVH Art Series, while a less versatile guitar compared to the EBMM and PV, is a much closer replica of his 1978 -1983 axes than anything else ever offered (under the EVH endorsement). The Kramer line? WTF? No offense to anyone who digs Kramer (I also have a Pacer and Barretta) - those "guitars" are NO WHERE in the same league as the Charvels. RANT OFF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Ed!! That's me, "wolfgang bob". I didn't mean to start a flame-war over there,(guess I did by saying something positive, and I don't even have one yet) You'd think you get some love at a VAN HALEN site buying a EVH Charvel.........

**eddyrox** · 08-09-2005, 09:45 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...and what a bunch of ignorant, hyperbole-spewing, 2nd generation information perpetuating, mother FUCKING douche bags!

[img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=27463

[img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img] http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/show...2&page=2&pp=15

[img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img] It looks like me and wolfgangbob are the only 2 guys on the attached threads that have a FUCKING clue about EVH's signature guitars. IMHO, the Ernie Ball Music Man is a mere "prototype" (lacks an arch top, d-tuna, tone knob, smaller neck radius, no UV protection in paint) compared to the Wolfgang (I've got 2 of each EBMM and PV lines), and the EVH Art Series, while a less versatile guitar compared to the EBMM and PV, is a much closer replica of his 1978 -1983 axes than anything else ever offered (under the EVH endorsement). The Kramer line? WTF? No offense to anyone who digs Kramer (I also have a Pacer and Barretta) - those "guitars" are NO WHERE in the same league as the Charvels. RANT OFF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Ed!! That's me, "wolfgang bob". I didn't mean to start a flame-war over there,(guess I did by saying something positive, and I don't even have one yet) You'd think you get some love at a VAN HALEN site buying a EVH Charvel.........

[/ QUOTE ]

Hola Bob! No shit - you'd think that diversity of opinion would be welcome? Either way, as long as the cat w/ an opinion speaks coherently and logically, no problem. But those folks on the VH "fan-boy" sites are speaking to tons of non-guitarists, and giving these non-players misinformation, IMHO. And being unfamiliar w/ guitars in general, most of these VH "fans" lack the context to challenge these pompous A-holes. "Kramer rules, and I'll take a $200 Music Yo over a Charvel" [img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img]
Spreading rumour and preaching conjecture as fact, based on nothing more than ignorance - that's a crime, IMHO.
mike.

**eddyrox** · 08-10-2005, 01:01 AM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

[ QUOTE ]
Many poeple will believe only what they want to believe. And then they'll try to pass that off as "fact". But it's all opinions. And no sense trying to convince someone else of your's, if they're not open-minded enough to actually listen to another point of view. Time better spent doing other things, bro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pat, of course you're right. BUT I cannot stop! It's fun to poke holes in these people's logic. See my "almost" diatribe-like, response to "brent":

http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/show...t=27482&page=2

(here's "brent"'s issue w/ Bob and my "logic", followed by my response)

[ QUOTE ]
What don't we get exactly? Please explain what we're missing. I'm very serious. What do you know about this guitar that the rest of us don't?

Bob, people are buying it because it has Eddie's endorsement and his stripes on them. If you took Ed's name off those guitars, they'd be going for $600 or $700, like that Kramer 1984 Re-Issue. It's a no better guitar than that.

I never said it sucks, but for the $2,500, it had better be more than what it is. And yes I am sure it's a decent price to people who can afford to lay down the cash on something like that. If I'm going to spend that much on a guitar, it had better be more than basswood, one humbucker, Ed's stripes, and the Charvel name.

[/ QUOTE ]

(my response)
Ok, fair enough (and as a USC Alum, I feel like I owe you this! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

First off, the materials.

Yes the guitar body is basswood. Yes the neck is maple w/o any sort of amenitization (flame, birdseye, etc.). And yes the guitar is "limited" in terms of "usage" when compared to a 2 humbucker or S/S/H or S/S/S guitar. However, Basswood is no less a wood than Korina, Mahogany, Alder, Swamp Ash, Koa, Lacewood, Poplar, etc.. The tonal qualities are much more even, w/ less emphasis on the mids, lows or highs, and marries well w/ the "snap" of a maple neck, accenuating the note and pick articulation. Is the maple/basswood combination bad? No, every EVH signature guitar from Kramer to Ernie Ball to PV has had this combination.

According to John Suhr (former Fender Custom Shop Master Luthier for Jeff Beck, Peter Frampton, Eric Clapton, Mark Knopfler) and Tom Anderson (former Schecter Vice President, and parts supplier to Kramer (on the Ripley guitars and rendered the bowling ball paint job) and Wayne Charvel and Grover Jackson), birdseye in maple weakens the neck and is less resonant (as the "birdseyes" are really knots in the wood and act as "dead spots"). Hard rock maple, w/ a pau ferro "skunk" stripe is the preferred design. It just so happens that both of my EVH Art Series guitars, as well as my 2 $2800 Anderson Drop Tops and my 2 $3000 Suhr Standards are equipped w/ hard rock maple necks and pau ferro skunk stripes. All 4 Anderson and Suhrs are loaded w/ basswood backs.

It's a matter of taste, not materials.

Second, the Charvel name.

Arguably, without the affliation w/ FMIC, Charvel Jackon would continue to "limp" along financially and cling to whatever dying legacy was created in the 80's. Now w/ the cash infusion and capital access that major investor represents, investment in capital assets such as CNC routers and/or manufacturing techology, access to higher quality woods, and the financial inertia to pursue an endorsee like EVH, becomes reality. Additionally, coupled w/ higher engineering tolerances, the build quality and the fret work of the EVH Art Series is as good as an Anderson or a Suhr. The pinnacle of this marriage is that Charvel legally produce a "Strathead" w/o significant licensing or trademark issues.

Most importantly, given their alignment w/in the Fender corporation, Charvel is regaining the recognition as the true innovators of the "hot rod" guitar. And don't forget, this "relationship" allows Charvel to legally produce a very close replication of the EVH striping pattern.

Finally, THE money issue.

It truly does boil down to the P&L (profit and loss) and the return on invested capital to FMIC/Charvel. Translation: does the artist endorsement and the initial capital outlay provide an above market return to the company? Moreover, is this return greater than the hurdle rate of a risk-free investment?

The strategic planning and marketing, design, the manufacturing, and ultimate distribution on a worldwide scale, requires mega $$$. THAT is ultimately why the Charvel Art Series is priced where it is. Yes there's a health profit to both the manufacturer who rewarded/compensated for taking the financial risk and to the retailer who shoulders the inventory maintenance risk when opting to sell a guitar w/ "limited appeal" in this fickle internet-obsessed (aka: fad crazy) market.

Conclusion:

In exchange for all of the work and efforts to market the Art Series, the buyer receives a VERY well designed, highly detailed, and consistently built guitar. Again, these are NOT your Anderson, Suhr axes. Those guitars represent the pinnacle of quality, versatility AND tone. Consider the Suhr/Anderson to be a Mercedes - nice lines, killer build and highly engineered. The Charvels would be like a killer Shelby Cobra or fastback Corvette. The Charvel will forever represent rebellion in a world of refined, all-purpose guitars. But where a Charvel may lack in versatility (e.g. "single hum"), it MORE than makes up in BALLS AND CHUNK (specially wound EVH p/up).

Even w/o the strathead and the EVH paint job, these guitars would be worth well in excess of the MusicYO or 80's Kramers. The build and design characteristics and the wood choice alone would justify that.

FIGHT ON!
Mike.

**brent** · 08-10-2005, 12:38 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

that guys giving my name a bad name

for the record that's not me, I have a B/W Art series and just ordered a second B/W and a B/Y.

I think they're worth it.

But you can't talk about these guitars with most guitarists without getting into an argument with someone who has probably never even seen one, much less non-players who probably have cars less expensive.

-brent

**MBreinin** · 08-10-2005, 03:52 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

I had this same argument with a bunch of guys on Eddievanhalen.com. Trust me, it is not worth it. They all bash the Charvel and call it a strat with an unfinished neck and a fancy paint job. They all feel that it is below a "Kramer" 1984 MusicYou reissue. It is NOT worth it to argue. I was going around and around with this one dude, then I figured out that he was 15 years old, yeah...15 fucking years old.

Mike

**eddyrox** · 08-10-2005, 04:01 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

[ QUOTE ]
I had this same argument with a bunch of guys on Eddievanhalen.com. Trust me, it is not worth it. They all bash the Charvel and call it a strat with an unfinished neck and a fancy paint job. They all feel that it is below a "Kramer" 1984 MusicYou reissue. It is NOT worth it to argue. I was going around and around with this one dude, then I figured out that he was 15 years old, yeah...15 fucking years old.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, of course you're correct...well you AND Pat are correct! It's of no use...I'm tired of typing anyway! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]
mike

**Bengal65** · 08-10-2005, 05:09 PM

Re: EVH Art Series \"discussion\" at VHLinks

Eddy Wow, Your going to have to change your motto under your avatar To JCF "I Have No Life" after typing all that! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Yea,what you have been discussing is correct. I try to stay off those sites (Fan type) and stick to more specific sites like this one. This is a "most excellent site" (spoken with San Dimas High accent).
Speaking of guitar woods, one interesting item that comes to mind is that Steve Vai chose Basswood over other materials for his signature instrument also. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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