played a San Dimas yesterday

[shreddermon]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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I don't see how the comparisons are hurtful either - I'd love to hear why you think that.

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Tim, I think you answer you own question below...

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...either Charvels are built and priced right or they fizzle out again.

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The Charvel market is fickle and not very big. Quite tiny right now, actually. It needs time and support to grow. If the guitars get an unfair rep of being overpriced - or whatever criticism - they will have little chance of success again.

Those statements are heard and read by many others. And, if the some of the core of the Charvel-enthusiast market says things like "they're overpriced", what do you think are the chances of potential new buyers reading and believing that to be true? That's how brands/products get reputations. And then, what are the chances of Charvel succeeding?

Really. New vs. used/replica is just such an unfair criticism. For Charvels or any other manufacturer, for that matter. I mean, when's the last time you saw ten guys spouting off on the Fender forum about how overpriced the USAs are, and how they can build a quality Warmoth replica for so much cheaper? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ...Again, ponder the reasons why these types of criticisms seem more unique to the Charvel community. Just think about it.

[BYeh1]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

nice catch budman... can't believe it took 46 minutes for someone to catch that... who else but the "bud" man could be the first responder!

[img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[~K~]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

You cannot compare price on a 1984 Charvel to a 2005 Charvel and apply it evenly. You are making the assumption that there are never any price increases within the new market.

Tim to add to that how long have you played or bought charvels? Back in 1987 I could buy them for $200 - $500 all day while the import series was more expensive. Is it fair to assume that the Model series was superior to the older USA made guitars at the time? No it was dictated by the market and at that point Ibanez started to become the desired guitar. That eventually succomed to the Gibson and Fender market again....

I see this cost argument time and time again where I work. Insurance,Wages,Metal,Gas,Tools all go up in price constantly. Does one assume if I made a part 3 years ago for $700 that I should be able to make it for $200 now?

The msrp argument was to point out that not one person walks onto a car lot and pays full sticker price for a car... so why is the guitar market any different ....

[hippietim]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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The Charvel market is fickle and not very big. Quite tiny right now, actually. It needs time and support to grow. If the guitars get an unfair rep of being overpriced - or whatever criticism - they will have little chance of success again.

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See, this is where you and I disagree. I don't think the rep is unfair for at least the production models.

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I mean, when's the last time you saw ten guys spouting off on the Fender forum about how overpriced the USAs are, and how they can build a quality Warmoth replica for so much cheaper?

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I never hung out at the Fender forum but it happened daily on the world's largest Tele discussion board - TDPRI. People were always bitching about the cost of USA Fenders and how they could build the same thing cheaper and better using Warmoth or USACG or Mighty Mite or whatever parts.

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...Again, ponder the reasons why these types of criticisms seem more unique to the Charvel community.

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They aren't. I think you aren't hanging around enough other communities [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ralph E.]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

Just to clarify that i'm not only one-sided about this topic, I will say that when I see Fender Relics priced at 3k I am amazed that anyone would spend that kind of money on a bolt-on guitar. I LOVE relics, have owned probably 10 thru the years, and currently own 2 which I probably will never sell. But sorry, no bolt-on guitar is worth 3k+. The '69 I got off of ebay for 1200, and the original reciept was in the case, the guy spent 3250 from Wild West for it only 1 year earlier, just nuts imo.

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

"You prefer the originals because,as a used guitar,they're cheaper."

<font color="red"> Not at all,I prefer the old guitars because they're IMO better guitars!!&amp; yes,I can get 'em for about 1/2 the price of a new reissue!! </font>

"while the import series was more expensive."

<font color="red">Huh??Not around here,I've never seen a time when the imports were more expensive than an SDC....never!!I've seen many SDCs mistaken for a Model Series &amp; priced similarly but never in my area were the imports more expensive than an SDC!!

Bottom line,the new Charvels are overpriced IMO,a standard strat body bolt-on reissue for $1600.00 plus &amp; alot more for a graphic??Not when I can buy the originals with or without a graphic for far less!!Can you imagine someone paying more for a reissue '57 strat IF they could get an original '57 strat for less $$??LOL!!</font>

[Jack Napalm]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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Not at all,I prefer the old guitars because they're IMO better & yes,I can get 'em for about 1/2 the price of a new reissue!!

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Ok, this is what I don't understand. How can an old one be better? If the same people making the instruments are the same ones now as before wouldn't you think they would be better? They have years more experience than 20+ years ago. I just don't buy that argument at all.

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

<font color="red"> Simple preference!!IMO,better wood,better quality,better feel,better everything!!

Also,I prefer old Duncans &amp; Dimarzios to the new ones,I prefer the old Kahlers &amp; Floyds to the new ones!!

IMO,no reissue can touch the feel &amp; sound of a guitar with twenty plus years of play wear,guitars can be reliced,but they aren't broken in till they are played alot!!

Compare a 59' Les Paul to a new Reissue,I'll take the old one everytime!!

Show me another guitar where the reissue costs twice as much(or more)than the original??!! </font>

[hippietim]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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Tim to add to that how long have you played or bought charvels?

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I started buying Jackson/Charvel guitars in 1984.

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Back in 1987 I could buy them for $200 - $500 all day while the import series was more expensive.

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You should have stocked up [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

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Is it fair to assume that the Model series was superior to the older USA made guitars at the time? No it was dictated by the market and at that point Ibanez started to become the desired guitar. That eventually succomed to the Gibson and Fender market again....


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I know you are trying to make a point but I don't get it.

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I see this cost argument time and time again where I work. Insurance,Wages,Metal,Gas,Tools all go up in price constantly. Does one assume if I made a part 3 years ago for $700 that I should be able to make it for $200 now?

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No. But if one of your competitors can make a part of comparible quality and functionality for $200 then you better be able to.

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The msrp argument was to point out that not one person walks onto a car lot and pays full sticker price for a car... so why is the guitar market any different ....

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Kevin, I get that nobody pays MSRP in the guitar market. Trust me, I've never paid MSRP for a guitar in my life. I don't think anyone here is talking about MSRP prices. I could care less if an EVH has an MSRP of $34,000 as long I can get it for a reasonable price. When I say a solid color single-hum v-trem Charvel is too expensive at $1500 I mean the cost to the consumer is too high.

I know this is touchy for folks because nobody wants to hear that what they hold near and dear was overpriced. I'm one of those people. Even though I got a good deal at the time, I still paid a lot of money for my first EVH. It stung a bit when people said they were overpriced and we were paying for a drunk loser's cash guitar, etc. But this is a discussion board and those folks did have some valid points. In the end, I don't regret the purchase one bit because it is a kickass guitar. At the same time I am willing to fully acknowledge that I think they are overpriced guitars.

I think it's ok to say that a guitar is overpriced but you'll pay the price anyhow to get what you want - in fact, I think J/C is counting on it for this Charvel Renaissance.

So if you really want to have a Dweezil green guitar with a cool 3D logo and a neck profile and body shape unique to Charvel or a "true to spec" Solar flame single hum beauty with the correct tuners then by all means do so - you aren't going to convince me that you got a good deal on it - but you got what you wanted for a price you were willing to pay and by all accounts the guitars are all kickass so then I'm happy for all involved - and I am also jealous because I'd like one of each [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[~K~]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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while the import series was more expensive."

Huh??Not around here,I've never seen a time when the imports were more expensive than an SDC....never!!I've seen many SDCs mistaken for a Model Series &amp; priced similarly but never in my area were the imports more expensive than an SDC!!


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Chuck,

That comparison was being made from a used SDC to a new model series guitar at that time and not new to new ...

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

<font color="red"> Understood Kev,still,never in my area was a new Import more than a used SDC,the U.S.A made Charvie was always considered higher quality &amp; more $$!!

&amp; happy holidays!!</font>

[mattsmusiccenter]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line,the new Charvels are overpriced IMO,a standard strat body bolt-on reissue for $1600.00 plus &amp; alot more for a graphic??Not when I can buy the originals with or without a graphic for far less!!Can you imagine someone paying more for a reissue '57 strat IF they could get an original '57 strat for less $$??LOL!!</font>

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Although the used market is huge... Not everyone has the means to find the old guitars, nor does everyone want a guitar that's been modded (who knows how many times) and played (by who knows how many people) for 20 years. Many of my customers like the fact that their guitar is factory fresh, and has a warranty on it.

I'll go back to selling guitars now. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Soap]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

In my area, I gotta drive approx 60-90 miles depending which direction I go, just to get to a Charvel dealer. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they have any in stock.
In my area, Charvels and Jacksons both aren't in high demand.

They always say, "no we don't have any in stock but we can order one for you". Idiots, no I don't want to order one untill I play it first to see if I want it. I yet have the pleasure to test spin a Charvel. I have a Jackson import and the neck was very nice playing. I intend to have a Charvel one day, most likely a custom.

[~K~]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

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<font color="red"> Understood Kev,still,never in my area was a new Import more than a used SDC,the U.S.A made Charvie was always considered higher quality &amp; more $$!!

&amp; happy holidays!!</font>

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Well case in point was the bigmouth .. which was an original unaltered graphic that I paid $450 for as opposed to a Model 6 which was what $800/$900 new?

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: played a San Dimas yesterday

<font color="red"> Was the Big Mouth available for $450.00 used at the same time a Model6 was available for $800.00 new??

</font>