FMIC to *mothball* the Charvel brand?

[surfreak]

Yes, EVH picked up himself a factory 2nd Strat body made by Lynn Ellsworth of Boogie Body, which happened to be under a pile of other similar bodies at Charvel's shop.

[skorb]

Luthier? Not at all. The only things Wayne built himself were some hardware pieces for Fenders and other known brands. The entire extent of him working with EVH was that he had a strat body lying around that he sold it to EVH. Wayne didn't build the body, it was somebody elses, Boogie I think. If I sold you a guitar body that I didn't build and you became the next great guitar vurtuoso, would I then become the next great guitar builder? I think not.

understood. but I guess it comes down to the definition of luthier then. does that term mean only those who build new guitars from scratch? this is what you seem to posit in your response. or does it also include those who customize, repair, change, set up, or in other ways work on guitars?

[surfreak]

Considering the modern production techniques for electric guitars, I think it is too ambitious and self-gratifying to call them luthiers, even if they build a guitar from scratch, especially when that simply means pushing the button for the CNC machine, or driving the routers across a template.

Fender and others correctly call them "builders". Highly skilled, no doubt about it, but certainly not luthiers.

In my opinion a luthier is an artist who has the talent to build a superior acoustic instrument, starting from choosing the right woods, and with minimal use of power tools.

[xenophobe]

but yeah I would bet custom orders have shrunk significantly given the comments here about poor quality and with the price increases.

Doubtful. You'd think from what you hear here, but we're only a tiny speck of the Jackson purchasing community. Probably along the lines of <0.5% of their total sales.

[shreddermon]

+1. Maybe not quite that low, but agreed we sure tend to overestimate our self-importance sometimes, don't we?

Seriously, folks, let's try applying some common sense. If sales were tanking big time do you really think it would make sense to do a big price hike at the same time? And do you really think they would also effectively cut production by taking the Charvel line as custom shop only then, too? Not to mention in the past year or so, they've done a couple of "blackout" periods, where they've stopped taking custom shop orders for a short while?

If anything is going on here, it's more likely that the custom shop has more business than they can handle. And too much / too rushed production can lead to QC problems and poor customer service. And if demand goes up, common business economics say that's when to raise prices. At least, that's what appears to be happening to me. Your opinion may vary.

[skorb]

Doubtful. You'd think from what you hear here, but we're only a tiny speck of the Jackson purchasing community. Probably along the lines of <0.5% of their total sales.

I think that is a very low estimate, considering the high% of people these days that are internet savvy. those people generally check out their planned purchases on the internet and that would lead them here. I would bet that our posting members comprise at least 20% of their market for CS stuff, given that some of us here buy 3-5 guitars a year from the CS (off the shelf is different) and we have lurkers here who don't post making up another 10%.

maybe I'm off, but I doubt it's as low as you were thinking bro.

[Sukisyn]

wow ... I wish I could afford 3-5 CS guitars a year.

[Rufue]

Doubtful. but we're only a tiny speck of the Jackson purchasing community. Probably along the lines of <0.5% of their total sales.

I suspect that our influence is a little bit more than that. Especailly with CS orders. True, we will not make or break J/C, but I bet they check out what we are saying fairly regular. Even if our combined annual sales is only 5% of J/C total, that is still a big chunk of change.

[skorb]

wow ... I wish I could afford 3-5 CS guitars a year.

wasn't talking about myself... I wish too.

[guitarzan2]

Seriously, folks, let's try applying some common sense. If sales were tanking big time do you really think it would make sense to do a big price hike at the same time? And do you really think they would also effectively cut production by taking the Charvel line as custom shop only then, too? Not to mention in the past year or so, they've done a couple of "blackout" periods, where they've stopped taking custom shop orders for a short while?

If anything is going on here, it's more likely that the custom shop has more business than they can handle. And too much / too rushed production can lead to QC problems and poor customer service. And if demand goes up, common business economics say that's when to raise prices. At least, that's what appears to be happening to me. Your opinion may vary.

I'll have to respectufully disagree with you on this theory. I think it's more likely that sale of new Charvels have been very, very slow after the initial launch where the big dealers bought up stock and then had to firesale them. I doubt many new Charvels are being ordered by dealers right now.

My take on what is happening is that the Charvel line has been a big disappointment and not making any real positive revenue for FMIC. Therefore, they are going to scale back and make Charvels only as Customs and charge big bucks for them to the few people who really a guitar with the Charvel name on them. That's the only way they will make money off Charvel branded guitars. That and the EVH clones.

As someone else mentioned, there are several Fender guitars that come awfully close to being Charvels right now.

Charvel, you will be assimilated, we are Fender, resistance if futile.

[shreddermon]

The Charvel line was reintroduced 3 years ago. If my Candy Red strathead is a reasonable indication, they've built about 1,600 USA Charvel guitars since then. That's not counting the limited editions (25ths, Retros, etc) and EVHs. So let's call it somewhere north of 2,000, to be conservative. In 3 years. ...That's a sales disappointment?

I think you're on the money, in terms of motivation, though. Go custom only, and charge higher bucks for lower production.

[El_Kabong]

The Charvel line was reintroduced 3 years ago. If my Candy Red strathead is a reasonable indication, they've built about 1,600 USA Charvel guitars since then. That's not counting the limited editions (25ths, Retros, etc) and EVHs. So let's call it somewhere north of 2,000, to be conservative. In 3 years. ...That's a sales disappointment?
.

That is a huge dissapointment and a gross miscalculation of forecasting by the marketing and product development staff. When Fender carries all of its multinational Fender lines, Guild, Tacoma, Bennedetto and Squier, 2,000 units of a dedicated line worldwide, is low.

By observation alone FMIC failed to aknowledge that the brass v-trem is not a sought after feature. Most would prefer Floyd Rose. These guitars were blown out by distributors. FMIC sets the pricing on most items. At 20% off from list price and offering after service, the profit margin is not large. At 'blow-out' prices, the compny is taking a hit.

If their 'market research' was following eBay, as to vintage prices and future projections, they failed to ascertain that it is the same handful of collectots, time after time.

There was no product focus- plain Jane, modern graphics and vintage graphics were not unified under one label. They failed to establish their niche in the market. When they had the opportunity to capitalize, they seemed to have attempted to recoup losses by gouging prices on appointments that should have been offered fom the reintroduction- stratheads.

In turn, they alienated their strongest consumer base- ending player replica guitars, shoddy workmanship, failure to read specifications on work orders and the high tarrif on a trademark that the parent company already owns. They mistook brand loyalty for pacifism in the consumer.

The proposed clothing line clearly demonstated that they had little knowledge of the target deemographic with designs featuing banana seated low rider bicycles.

A name is only as good as the company that stands behind it. One may guess that the Charvel brand name was pimped out for marketing R&D for the Fender brand.

I understand that some of the new guitars are fantastic instruments. We tend to recall the downside first as consumers.

Wen we are dealing with a multinational that is bent on litigation and protectionism, we have to rememeber that they are slowly forgetting what the company was based on. The net profit on those 2,000 shipped units may not be as grand as one would wish to imagine.

[El_Kabong]

Earthquake- missed the 1o minute edit max.

"I think you're on the money, in terms of motivation, though. Go custom only, and charge higher bucks for lower production."

It doesn't work like that. They have to provide a high quality product that is competative, yet cashes in on the nostalgia. At Charvel, even their custom orders have shown indifference to quality control. As that price point, there are many fine choices.

Low production on a premium product, limits the longevity of the brand. FMIC is a profit based industry. The 'Custom shop' guitars of today, were the bone stock of years gone by. There would be no way for younger consumers to develop brand recognition. If they were to have started with the Grover signature series, with a list of about $3600 and artist replicas, they could have done a hit and run. Once the buyers in their mid 30s- early 50s are done, the brand will fade into history.

But at a company of this magnitude, simple logical ideas go out the door when 20 hands all want a piece of the pie without knowing, or caring what the flavor is.

[lerxstcat]

They want to make sure the paint is fully dried.

Well, you know how humid it is in Corona... sometimes 20%! :ROTF:

[Trycolore]

All very interesting. I just don't know why instead of making all these pointies with v-trems, why they didn't make a load of Floyded strat-heads - like the plane-Jane runs - just do loads of them with different pu and board configurations.

If they did that, and sold them for $1,500 - how many of us here would already own one? I certainly would - instead my money went to GMW.