V-trem tuning stability with a pointy headstock?

[fuel0707]

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like I'll be looking for a Floyd if I get a pointy.

[fuel0707]

it was just a transition into my theory. can't you just float your v trem and add a locking nut? isn't that the same thing (without fine tuners)?

Some of the very earliest trems that Floyd made don't have fine tuners on the bridge.

One problem you'd likely have without the fine tuners (like on a v-trem as in your question) is getting the guitar in tune to begin with. As you probably know, tightening down the locking nut will tend to put the strings a little bit out of tune. So you'd be caught in a cycle of constantly unlocking the nut, touching up the tuning, locking the nut, finding a slight tuning problem, unlocking the nut... That's why fine tuners were developed.

Funnily enough, you can actually guitars from Carvin with the opposite approach. They install a Floyd bridge but not the locking nut unless you select the option for the locking nut.

[Rupe]

A well set up floyd nut and string retainer will not make the strings go sharp when clamped. The real issue with using a locking nut with a v-trem is that the strings on a v-trem are not locked in place at the bridge. When tension is released, they are free to move around in the trem block which can cause tuning issues.

[vondran]

it was just a transition into my theory. can't you just float your v trem and add a locking nut? isn't that the same thing (without fine tuners)?

Instead of floating the v-trem my experience is it's better to have it pulled tightly against the body. It then has a consistent return position. With Floyds they developed the knife edge to make it consistent when floated.

[shreddermon]

it was just a transition into my theory. can't you just float your v trem and add a locking nut? isn't that the same thing (without fine tuners)?

No, it isn't the same thing. A true Floyd Rose is a double-locking tremelo. The strings are clamped tight at both the nut and the bridge. A vintage trem is not a locking bridge.

[CharvelRocker]

it was just a transition into my theory. can't you just float your v trem and add a locking nut? isn't that the same thing (without fine tuners)?

Besides what has been added to this, V trems are not really designed to float and you're asking for problems if you do it.

[ADR]

Yeah, there is no way you can keep a V-Trem in tune if you are even thinking about it.
Just ask me.You tune it up 440,use the bar once and its out.
I tightened all the 6 screws down and added 2 more springs,this seems to work the best for me (aka fixed bridge) now.

[1]

charvel v-trems blow for whammy abuse. imho! but i like the tone.

[thez0r]

I like v-trems but the pointy headstocks have always been terrible.

The tuning stability on the 3x3 headstock on my Jackson JX10 is amazing. I keep it tuned down to B and it actually stays in tune fine.

[vondran]

Yeah, there is no way you can keep a V-Trem in tune if you are even thinking about it.

Okay I'll respond to this. Randy Rhoads clearly used a v-trem with a pointy, and wammyed quite successfully while keeping in tune. Here's the tricks I've found that work after 25 years on dealing with a v-trem pointy Charvel.

1. Get rid of any binding at the nut. If you get a "ping" when tuning, all else doesn't matter until you fix that. If it's not too bad, I've fixed mine by using the wound strings like floss in the nut slots to file down and smooth out anything the string is catching on.

2. Wind the strings upward on the tuning posts, not down. This helps reduce the angle coming out of the back of the nut to the tuners. It's a slight change in angle, but was enough to help keep my pointy in tune with trem use.

3. String the strings through the tuning posts like is described at the below link. This is much like having locking tuners, in that the strings won't slip on the tuning posts.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/SteelStrings/Stringing/ststringing2.html

4. Have the trem return flush with the body. I have 5 spings in my v-trem that are tighten down nearly the whole way.

5. Use strings that don't stretch as much (I use Blue Steals), and make sure there isn't any corrosion on the unwound strings which would cause binding at the nut.

6. I fret the B and high E strings when using the wammy, even when not playing those strings. I found this reduced those two strings going out of tune with wammy use.

7. Get in the habit of coming out of using the v-trem with a large bend on the string(s) that commonly go out of tune with trem use.

[Predator1]

Or just buy a Floyd!

[Flatpicker]

Yeah, there is no way you can keep a V-Trem in tune if you are even thinking about it.

I have a Vtrem on a pointy and have had no issues with it for the last 2 years.
The only thing I can tell you is don't treat it like a floyd and you will be fine.
Keep your trem use to warbles and flutters, no deep diving.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

if you don't stretch the hell out of your strings when you first put them on, you will have tunning stability issues no matte what bridge type you are using. yes it will be more noticable with certain bridges tha others. and any dirt or binding agent in a nut slot will cause more issues aswell. but if you want tunning stability it starts with stretching your strings and retuning over and over again right after they are first tuned to pitch. period.

[khabibissell]

I don't have a pointy, but I've got a couple of strats with roller nuts and locking tuners and they work VERY well (so does the PRS bridge/locking tuners/graphite nut setup. I had a CE24)... I have a FMT deluxe and it stays in tune so well I'm amazed. I just keep my dives to about a step to step and a half. You have to be kind of careful, but it can work. You'll notice that most of the old school guys that used vintage style trems keep their dives pretty shallow. Push it too far and you're asking for trouble. Also, don't just dive the bar and let go of it... Keep your hand on it and make sure the return to pitch isn't abrupt.

I don't understand why you would want to pull the trem all the way down to the body though... I understand that it gives the trem a constant spot to return to, but having the bridge float a bit gives you the option of pulling up quickly on the bar to release the slack if a string does go flat (which is what will happen after a dive and the string gets stuck).

Also, I have to recommend the Fender Bullet end strings for vintage style bridges. The bullet end fits in the trem nicely and doesn't have a winding that sticks out like a regular string does. Those windings can get caught on the bridge too.

I think most of us, having grown up in the Floyd age, are used to going nuts with the bar and never really worrying about the tricks necessary to keep old school setups in tune.

I guess this doesn't really apply to the pointy/vintage trem question the original poster had, I just wanted to give some love for vintage bridges...

[fuel0707]

I guess this doesn't really apply to the pointy/vintage trem question the original poster had, I just wanted to give some love for vintage bridges...

Don't worry, I have plenty of love for v-trems in general. I have 4 guitars with v-trems. But as I start to consider getting a Charvel, I'm trying to figure out if I should even consider a v-trem/pointy guitar. At this time, it sounds like it's not a recommended combo from most people. Sadly, I don't know of any Charvels in my area so I can't try one out for myself.