Hey guys read this! USA PRODUCTION OWNER reviews his new san dimas

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Sure, Newc, I thought of those things, and a bunch more.

But, the fact is that even if the only difference is that the bar socket tends to be wobbly on the Korean model, and not on the German model, then it's an "upgrade."

Sure, there's other ways to fix that, and no, it's not really worth the $200 if that's the only difference, but precision tolerances and quality materials, as well as labor, cost money, and I'm "betting" my $200 that other shortcomings are there.

Some things I've "heard" are zinc block and saddles, vs. brass and steel. Could be true, could be false. Could be the base plate isn't as hard as the German Floyd- less wear on the tools and drill bits = less money to produce the units.

I don't pretend to know the facts on all of that, but I do know the fact that Charvel and Jackson put the higher-cost German unit on their top-of-the-line guitars, and again, am betting my $200 that they know something that you and I don't know.

In the meantime, I'll continue to call it an "upgrade" and I'll be right, and time will simply prove how much of an upgrade it was.

[Grandturk]

Well that voodoo guy seemed to think the Korean floyds had a brass block And that's what made them heavier but not better. And others say brass=tone. I wish the OFR purists would get together on what's so great about them.

Like I said before - I think there's a reason why you can't buy the Korean floyd outside of OEM. Floyd doesn't want you to get these over the counter.

[Newc]

Maybe another part of the cost savings is there's no retail competition - OEM only. Builders get them at wholesale prices and adjust their final price with retail-level markup on the bridge to dealers.

As for the spring blocks - if you take something apart and replace something on it, especially with something that you bought under the opinion that this one part will alter the sound, and after buying into the rumors of superior/inferior materials on one or the other, you have, in fact, merely altered your perception of the sound.

You expect more good stuff and less bad stuff and so you perceive it is so, even if such is not the case.


It's incorrect to say the Korean OFRs "haven't stood the test of time". They haven't had the opportunity yet. It's like badmouthing someone for not being able to walk across a road they haven't gotten to yet. With that, you cannot claim that the Schaller is an upgrade simply because it has already crossed the same road. It simply remains to be seen. If you go into it with a poor attitude, expecting it to fail, then the same issues you'd find on a Schaller OFR will be magnified on the FRT. Every miniscule amount of wear will be seen as much greater than it would be "if it was a Schaller", even though such is not the case.


As I said, no one knows. Not even me. Put two brand new units through the same amount of use for the next 10 years and then we'll have a starting point to judge quality.

[Grandturk]

You expect more good stuff and less bad stuff and so you perceive it is so, even if such is not the case.

Entire industries have been founded on this... tonepros, RS pots, pickups...

[85 San Dimas]

Just to be clear about my postings in this subject a little bit ago.

I know what you mean, sometime I come off that way whether I'm trying to or not. It's all in the the way "typing" reads sometimes.

[Zaneus]

It's incorrect to say the Korean OFRs "haven't stood the test of time". They haven't had the opportunity yet. It's like badmouthing someone for not being able to walk across a road they haven't gotten to yet. With that, you cannot claim that the Schaller is an upgrade simply because it has already crossed the same road. It simply remains to be seen. If you go into it with a poor attitude, expecting it to fail, then the same issues you'd find on a Schaller OFR will be magnified on the FRT. Every miniscule amount of wear will be seen as much greater than it would be "if it was a Schaller", even though such is not the case.

I was saying that people like to 'upgrade' to the German Schaller floyd because it HAS stood the test of time. They know the schaller will last for decades. These korean floyds are new and their track record isn't extensive.

I love my korean floyd and i dont see myself replacing it unless it craps out.

[85 San Dimas]

Dude, prove to us it's not a "real Floyd".
.........

Is it a German-made OFR? No, even I can tell the difference. Is it a very high-quality non-German OFR? Absolutely. It blows away all other "licensed by" Floyds, as far as I'm concerned. And comes pretty damn close to the Schaller-made trem. Also, from a quality and reliability stand-point, we won't truly know those answers until they've established a track record after years of use and abuse from gigging guitarists.?

You just answered your own question. You don't know what the hell it is either. As for whining I don't whine. As for your question:

As for "real", anyone from the 80's knows what a real one is. Brad Gillis and others from that time aren't hoarding up Korean Floyds whether they should be or not. That's the context of my hardware comment on page 5. A real original FR is like a '59 Paul. Its the real thing. Period. They don't make them anymore, and never will. New ones CAN be even "better", but they will never be the "same". Is it high quality, does it do the job, does it sound "right"? That's the discussion AS I UNDERSTAND IT RE: the Floyds.

You can't tell someone that doesn't think the Korean ones sound as good
that they're "full of shit". Whoever does is "full of shit".

that relentless one-subject posting focus makes you a troll. You may not have the same arrogant attitude as Voodoosound - which I'll give you credit for - but it's lame trolling nontheless.

As for the accusations:

Since the threads on the Charvel USA forum are relentlessly about these guitars then that's what there is to comment on......y'know there isn't much to post on when Newc changes his pickguard...but I did post there. Besides, these are more interesting threads. I don't have to post to watch an argument break out...just go back a couple of pages....

I admit that at this point I am curious why you seek ME out. When you constantly post over and over calling me out or to pick a fight then I'd say that's trolling. And don't quote definitions of words in the English or Internet blogging "languages" to me. I'm educated enough to tell a difference between what is coming out of my ass and what is being blown up it. Post what you want (as I do and as you should) but I'm not going to spend more time responding to posts of yours like that. It was ridiculous and self-serving. Oh and BTW, my facts are pretty good.

To be fair though, I really enjoy and respect your opinions when you're on topic. I always have, and you should already know that based on previous posts from me in other threads. Same goes for Flatpicker, Newc, Grandturk and many, many others. So, in the end it's just irrational to be pissed off at me because of my So-Cal stance. Why care what I think?

As for THIS thread as it stands NOW:
I think Newcs last post was about right and generally how he posts on the trems. It's not about Korean vs. German, or that one is better than the other because sound is an inexact science. It's about having the "best" ones. They're the ones that do the job. I think Trems are a lot like amps that way.

IMHO our (all of us) collective experience thus far (well over 25 years of locking trems) is that the German ones SHOULD be consistently better, but it doesn't have to be so. Based on what I've been reading the last few months I think everyone is trying to get comfortable with the Korean ones. Given our biases and based on our experiences there are some of us that aren't thrilled with the Koreans...its natural. We're not closed-minded, just skeptical. it's like a Duncan JB. We all know about all kinds of great pickups but if all you want to 'hear" is a JB then..that's the only PU that'll give you what you want.

[85 San Dimas]

[QUOTE=Grandturk;1249483] others say brass=tone. I wish the OFR purists would get together on what's so great about them. QUOTE]

I don't think the brass thing is much help. I think its pretty much a 70's holdover. Those were (by modern definition) low-gain amps (JMP's, Hiwatts, etc.) they were playing through. The gain and sustain we take for granted didn't really even begin to exist unless you were melting the amps (which EVH did).

Some swear by brass. I don't think there's hard data though. I DO believe in the high mass Floyd blocks just because, hell it can't hurt. the stock blocks were so small that there was almost no transferrance of vibration brom bridge to wood so...I'll buy that part. The titanium thing seems to work from everything I've heard/read. I don't THINK brass v. steel is huge.
Forged versus cast would be IMHO. Someone posted on that once. I can't remember who.

[shreddermon]

As for "real", anyone from the 80's knows what a real one is. Brad Gillis and others from that time aren't hoarding up Korean Floyds whether they should be or not. That's the context of my hardware comment on page 5. A real original FR is like a '59 Paul. Its the real thing. Period. They don't make them anymore, and never will.

So now it's vintage 80s Floyds vs modern ones? The old ones are the only "real" Floyds, huh? Your arguments to date have always been German vs. Korean. Why the change all of a sudden? And, even if that were your true gripe, why aren't you posting similar crapola in the USA Jackson area, about how the newer German Floyds don't compare to the "real" ones from the 80s.

Well, I'll tell you why. Because it's just a very troll-ish attempt at obfuscation (would you like me to define that, too? ) and changing the argument. Simply more BS.

You can't tell someone that doesn't think the Korean ones sound as good that they're "full of shit". Whoever does is "full of shit".

I can tell anyone who's opinion I think is full of shit that they are full of shit. That doesn't make my opinion any more valid than their's. So maybe I am full of shit, too. But it does refute things they falsely try to represent as "fact". And that is not shit.

I admit that at this point I am curious why you seek ME out.

Because you're a troll.

Besides, being a troll means you actually want the attention. So don't go trying to play the victim here. Me thinks thou doest protest too much.

When you constantly post over and over calling me out or to pick a fight then I'd say that's trolling.

I'm not trying to pick a fight at all. I'm just identifying annoying troll-like posting behavoir. If you're a decent guy, you might take it to heart as constructive criticism and change your posting trends. But most trolls aren't decent guys.

Oh and BTW, my facts are pretty good.

No, they're not. They're not facts at all. They're opinions. And my opinion of them is that many are full of shit. I thought we established that already.

So, in the end it's just irrational to be pissed off at me because of my So-Cal stance. Why care what I think?

I'm not pissed off at you. And I don't particularly care what you think. In fact, I respect everyone's right to say, post and think whatever they want. Your's included. But what I dislike is people falsely representing opinions as fact. And, even more than that, I really dislike incessent, repetitive, troll-like posting on the same topic over and over again. Especially when it's off-topic to the thread.

[Rupe]

I've got no dog in this fight, but the people getting upset and name calling are coming off as the losers in this one. I don't see anything that resembles "trolling" going on...just different people with different thoughts.

If something that someone has posted elevates your anger to the point of namecalling, perhaps its time to just stay out of this particular thread. It's completely counterproductive to go at it like you are.

Some of you guys need to man up and quit with the bitching and name calling. These are f#cking guitars!

Luv ya,

Rupe

[Grandturk]

Since the threads on the Charvel USA forum are relentlessly about these guitars then that's what there is to comment on......y'know there isn't much to post on when Newc changes his pickguard...but I did post there. Besides, these are more interesting threads. I don't have to post to watch an argument break out...just go back a couple of pages....

Well... you could always change the subject by starting a new thread and posting up some pictures of all the San Dimas era Charvels that you buy instead of the ProMods. Then we could gawk at them and talk about something we all agree on - the old ones were awesome (I guess, having never played one myself).

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Well, if we're posting our opinions based on our anecdotal experience with the guitars, here's mine:

The quality control on these, in a word, sucks.

Of the three bodies I've inspected closely, all three had ripples in the clear coat (1" long linear high spots, easily seen with the light reflecting at the right angle) which can easily be fixed by proper wetsanding at the factory (or at home), one has what looks like a poorly matched/finished glue joint (long, linear low spot) on the joint in the middle of the lower cutaway, and one had a really crappy/crooked routed neck pocket, should have been DOA/scrapped at the factory, but it was shipped.


Of the two necks I've seen, one is great, and the other has a pretty serious fret or fingerboard leveling issue. The frets appear seated and have a normal looking crown on them, but the notes from the 15th - 18th fret on the G/B/E string are all "dead" unless the action is set unreasonably high (over 2 mm, and yes, that is "unreasonably high" for a 12-16" compound radius neck of good quality).


I'm sure there are some gems out there. I'm sure some of you will want to tell me that your finish "looks great" or is "perfect" or your fretboard is the "best guitar you've ever played, and I've played <blah blah blah>" and I hope that it is, I really do.


Unfortunately what I've seen are three of what I hope are the worst finished bodies ever made, the worst neck pocket route, and the worst neck ever shipped. I'm a little doubtful that I'm just the "unlucky guy" who got stuck with the lemons though, so "buyer beware" and look these things over REALLY close, don't be fooled by the "It's a Charvel(tm)! Made in USA(tm)! hype like I was, and if the action seems "awfully high" in the showroom, make 'em lower it, lower it yourself, or at least make sure the store has some kind of reasonable return policy.

Bottom line, if I were Charvel, I'd have a look-see into the Quality Control department, paint department, and maybe think about charging an extra $200 to "do it right, consistently, or don't do it at all" before you ruin your good name by flooding the market with QC rejects that you "just can't take a loss on."


And: To clarify, I was not expecting "Custom Shop Quality, without the customization, and limited colors, and cheaper hardware" I was expecting a quality base; good body wood, good finish, a good neck, clean routing, properly aligned screws. Stuff like that. It's supposed to be a "good quality no frills" guitar, "Built ultra fine, on the line" and I do not consider proper wetsanding, routing, or quality control a "frill" or the lack thereof to be "built ultra fine."