Pre-Pro questions

[mudkicker]

I remeber there was some debate here years ago about these early necks with the brass markers possibly being Boogie necks. The early Charvels were other companies parts assembled as Charvels. If Hoss or Kevin (83sandimas) chimed in they would definately know.

[tonedeaf]

I remeber there was some debate here years ago about these early necks with the brass markers possibly being Boogie necks. The early Charvels were other companies parts assembled as Charvels. If Hoss or Kevin (83sandimas) chimed in they would definately know.

That would be great if they would! I figured it was a plain jane Charvel neck as there is no figuring in the wood, just quarter sawn. I thought boogie necks were always highly figured birdseye or flames? Also why were talking about this neck, it is in desperate need of a refret. It's playable, I had it on another ash Charvel body but just scored a mid '80s Performance Guitars strat headstock neck that i'll put on it. Can anyone recommend someone that would do a good refret? I'd do it myself but the laquer on the fretboard is so thick I don't want to damage it. Any help here would be appreciated also.

[RR05xx]

No expert here, but from what I have seen and the specs you list, it is very posible you have an early neck. Convesional wisdom on line says that Charvel Manufacturing did the 21 frets, rosewood dots and brass side markers for sure with the klusons. As to any others, it is possible and keep in mind that Charvel used some Boogie made parts early on so it is possible that the origins are both.

[tonedeaf]

No expert here, but from what I have seen and the specs you list, it is very posible you have an early neck. Convesional wisdom on line says that Charvel Manufacturing did the 21 frets, rosewood dots and brass side markers for sure with the klusons. As to any others, it is possible and keep in mind that Charvel used some Boogie made parts early on so it is possible that the origins are both.

But did anyone else do the rosewood dots and brass side markers? The thing that gets me is how thick this neck is, 13/16" at the 1st fret and 15/16" at the 12th. Nothing like any Charvel I've ever seen. It's like they copied a Fender exactly. If it hadn't been for knowing it had the Charvel logo and the inlays you would swear it was a Fender. How long until they started with the thinner necks? Now does anyone have info on the Dimarzio/Charvels? The one i have that is in the 1st two pics is a one piece ash body! It's heavier than a Les Paul but sounds awesome. Plus i have another swamp ash body that is really nice also. What years were these produced? Did ESP eventually do all of these bodies after Charvel?

[RR05xx]

Well, I can tell you this, SD charvel neck specs, particularly the early ones, are ALL over the map.

The necks were done by hand and they were all in effect "custom" one ofs. By around 85-86, the specs seem to have settled done (I own a couple of s-heads from that time frame and they are petty consistent. However, I have played a ton of early serialized guitars and while there seems to be some consistency kinda sorta between necks with similar nut widths, if you compare 20 random guitars, they go all over the map in thickness and feel. I also have a couple of '82 s-heads and they could not be more different - one with wide and very thin (1 3/4 nut - almost like a classical, but still very cool to play) and the other is more bat-like (with a 1 11/16 nut - still very charvel-like and comfy to play), but the two are really not anything alike, even though they were made a few months apart. I have played other old charvels with the wide/thin feel that are similar to my 1 3/4 and I have an '85 pointy with the fatter profile very similar to the 1 11/16 one (these fatter ones are definately keepers when you can find them IMHO - very cool marriage between charvel playability and some beef to the neck).

Keep in mind also that Charvel Mfg started out as a guitar repair shop (cira late 60s/early70s) and then, IIRC, gradually starting making "replacement" parts, first contracting necks and bodies from other sources (Boogie Bodies for example) and making small parts like stamped input jacks, then moving on to in-house production of necks and bodies after purchasing pin routers etc. necessay for relatively "mass" production (well enough to try to support a business with anyway). Also, one of the nitchs they were going for at first was fender replacement necks/boides, so it is not surprising that a neck would have fender specs (David Gilmore ordered a couple of charvel necks from Charvel directly in about 1978 - he even asked them to apply a fender logo -there is a scan of the work order floating around the internet and it fits with Gilmore's own telling of the history of his black strat as posted on-line).

Supposedly, (according to EVH) the original EVH B+W guitar from VI cover was assembled by EVH from parts he got from Wayne, NOT even assembled by Wayne Charvel. Part of the problem is the written record of that time frame is sparce. There is an article on line which supposedly has an interview with Wayne Charvel and then a reply by Grover Jackson (who bought Charvel Mfg from Wayne in 1978 and made the company profitable among other things). They both talk about how they sourced/made bodies/necks etc. The truth of what really happened probably lies somewhere in the middle of both "recollections", but I tend to believe Grover as Wayne sold out before 99.9% of the guitars that everyone thinks of as original "Charvel" were made. Kinda makes his current business model a joke in my mind. Sorry for the long post/rant.

[mudkicker]

We had asked a former Jackson/ Charvel employee (J. Walker) what era of Fender Strat neck was used as a template for the early Charvel necks. If I remember it was either a 56 or 57 strat neck. So the early necks were very Fender like.

Like above the Charvel necks really didn't become consistent until the pointies came out. Alot of the strat heads feel similar. But, I would say they were consistant until near the end of their run.

[tonedeaf]

So when did the pointies show up? '82-'83? And what year did the strat heads get consistant? Does anybody know some one to do a good refret job?

[RR05xx]

First "Charvel pointy was probably early '83? All of the 82s I have seen are either strat, gibson explorer typem gibson V type (or something totally one of), but not pointy. It is possible that earlier than 83 exists. Remember, the first "pointy" was actually a Jackson RR in '81-82 time frame and Grover put his last name on the hs just in case the idea flopped.

[dg]

There was an '82 Explorer bass (#1456) that may have been the 1st Charvel pointy, but one source says it was shaped from a standard P-Bass style headstock, and I don't know whether that means it was done at the factory or not.

http://www.jacksoncharvelworld.net/1456.jpg

[j2379]

check the heal width & its hard to tell but are the dots closer spacing. EARLY schecter necks have very much those same feature but have the standard fender heal width. whats the truss rod bolt look like?

[tonedeaf]

check the heal width & its hard to tell but are the dots closer spacing. EARLY schecter necks have very much those same feature but have the standard fender heal width. whats the truss rod bolt look like?

Yes, the dots are less than 15/16" on center. Smaller than all of my other Charvels. Did Schector do this also?

[straycat]

Early DiMarzio bodies and necks were made by Charvel according to Michael Charvel.

[rjohnstone]

Early DiMarzio bodies and necks were made by Charvel according to Michael Charvel.

I thought it was the other way around.

[dg]

Actually, it worked both ways depending on the timeframe. Before Grover took over, they got parts from Boogie, Schecter, and DiMarzio. Not sure which specific parts came from DiMarzio, but I always thought they were getting their bodies & necks from Boogie or Schecter. Grover's first big deal when he got the pin routers up & running was to make bodies & necks for DiMarzio. That was right when he took over, like in Nov. or Dec. of '78. Depending on who you believe, he may have had the deal in the works for some time before buying Wayne out, and that's one of the sore points between the two.

[tonedeaf]

Actually, it worked both ways depending on the timeframe. Before Grover took over, they got parts from Boogie, Schecter, and DiMarzio. Not sure which specific parts came from DiMarzio, but I always thought they were getting their bodies & necks from Boogie or Schecter. Grover's first big deal when he got the pin routers up & running was to make bodies & necks for DiMarzio. That was right when he took over, like in Nov. or Dec. of '78. Depending on who you believe, he may have had the deal in the works for some time before buying Wayne out, and that's one of the sore points between the two.

I heard that the early Charvel made Dimarzio bodies were routed out with the rounded triangular control cavity even though the production guitars were still using the early pre-pro route. Has anybody else heard this? And if they were doing the bodies in Dec. of '78, who was doing the necks as Grover didn't produce any necks for at least 6 more months? And what would distinguish a Boogie or Schector made Diamrzio neck?