What corners were cut on the production models

[beachjammer]

Now I can get a Strat style Charvel for under a grand, which fits my budget much better than a custom shop Charvel. I probably wouldn't have many chances to score an original strat head Charvel from the 80's or a Custom Shop for under a grand.

This sums it up in a nutshell! Hence the reason I think these came out in the first place. Now people don't have to ask themselves why anymore. The above mentioned is the reason why. All they have to ask is if they want one. I did and I'm thankful I got it! I hope they keep 'em coming in different colors, hardware, etc. I think the new white one is just a taste of some of the different options we're gonna see on these in the future. I'm looking forward to them all!

[aceinet]

Well, maybe I'm just giving too much credit to forum buzz. But the bottom line is this: Charvel lovers can get a strat-head Charvel logo'd guitar for about a grand, and that's mighty attractive to the faithful.

My attraction to the Charvel legacy is because of the strat head Charvel's. Sure I own a Ibanez and a Jackson but my first real guitar was a strat. Now I can get a Strat style Charvel for under a grand, which fits my budget much better than a custom shop Charvel. I probably wouldn't have many chances to score an original strat head Charvel from the 80's or a Custom Shop for under a grand.

[TTripp]

Not in New York City - Manny's has had the same models on the wall since I bought mine in September. They haven't moved.

Well, maybe I'm just giving too much credit to forum buzz. But the bottom line is this: Charvel lovers can get a strat-head Charvel logo'd guitar for about a grand, and that's mighty attractive to the faithful.

[Grandturk]

It's a business. From what I've seen, these things are selling like hotcakes (I mean heck, they completely dominate this forum). THAT'S why they were created in the first place.

Not in New York City - Manny's has had the same models on the wall since I bought mine in September. They haven't moved.

[TTripp]

It's a business. From what I've seen, these things are selling like hotcakes (I mean heck, they completely dominate this forum). THAT'S why they were created in the first place.

[Chubtone]

This is kind of silly. I spent a few hours last night swicthing back and forth between my 1984 San Dimas Charvel and my 2008 candy tangerine So Cal. They both have Mojave PAF pickups in them and if I wasn't forever blindly, sentimentally and irrationally attached to my 1984, I would have been able to admit that the So Cal sounded better with this particular pickup in it than my baby did. For nailing EVH type tones through my Mojave Peacemaker and my Splawn Quick Rod the So Cal was better. There I said it!

Now my candy purple Charvel has beaten back many tone challengers in the 25 years I have owned it and the thing has always come out on top, but I am going to put that old Duncan Custom back into and let the '84 be the wicked, heavy rock monster it has always been and let my So Cal nail the brown, hot-rodded plexi tones because it literally did that BETTER than my '84.

[AndyK]

I'd just like to say one more thing, I don't agree that Charvel production guitars should say "So-Cal, by Charvel". That is implying that these guitars are not even Charvel, but some form of sub-par Focus/Epiphone/Squire series - when they are not. They are Charvel production guitars that should say Charvel on them. The custom shop Charvels should say Charvel Custom Shop on them.

If Charvel starts making guitars in Mexico, or Japan, or Viet Nam, and calls them Charvels, then I would agree with you - those should be labeled differently. But as long as these guitars are made in the USA, it really doesn't matter who touches them when they come of the CNC machine. SOMEBODY working for FMIC (ultimately) will be assembling the guitar as a Charvel.

Fender started as a custom guitar company, making Strats and Tele's by hand in the 50's and 60's. Now, there are production Standard Strats, and Custom Shop Strats. But they are ALL Fender guitars. Even the $900 aged Mexican Strats.

[skintaster]

Hi, I'm new here. I'm also new to Charvel ownership, but not to guitars. I've played for over 25 years, and have owned many guitars from many different companies in that time.

Recent band developments led me on a search for a new axe, and I discovered the production model Charvels. I'm fortunate to live a mile away from a high end guitar store that is a Charvel dealer, and had the opportunity to try several of the pro models as well as several custom shop guitars.

The CS guitars were awesome, but honestly, I can't ever see taking a $2500 + guitar onstage. I own several guitars in that price range, and they stay in my studio. Besides the pagan gold So-Cal I ended up buying performs as well or better than many pricier guitars I've played recently. Things like 'tone' or playability are completely subjective, but this is one of the best guitars I've ever owened, and I actually prefer it to the CS guitars I tried out. That's not a bash on the CS, it was just my personal experience.

I don't want to offend anyone here, but the arguments that I keep reading in regards to these being "real" Charvels or not seem a little silly to me. The argument that they're really Fenders... Well I just don't buy that. I've owned several Fenders over the years, including a heavy metal strat, and I've never played a Fender that felt like the So-Cal. Besides didn't Charvel originally customize Fenders? Thus the whole "hot rod strat" thing? (I could be wrong on this stuff, I'm not a Charvel historian or anything. )

FMIC also owns Jackson, Guild, EVH, and Gretch. Are they all those guitars "Fenders" too?

I just don't personally understand the idea that a guitar isn't valid if it didn't start it's life in a custom shop. Most large guitar companies have a custom shop these days, but they also have producion models. I don't think most people consider a Fender American standard strat any less a fender than its custom shop brethren.

I could understand some harsh opinions if the pro models sucked, or if the quality was bad, but that doesn't seem to be the general consensus. And so what if a company only made expensive custom guitars in the past? Companies often change... In many cases they have to to survive.

Anyway, I'm not trying to offend anyone, these are just my opinions. I'm REALLY happy to own my So-Cal, and frankly I don't care what company built it, I would have bought it regardless of the brand... It's a great guitar.

I will say this though, I'm feeling pretty converted to the Charvel camp, and will probably buy more in the future... Maybe even a sweet expensive custom shop creation, so maybe it's a good thing the pro mods are out there... 'Cause I might not have really discovered the brand without them.

[85 San Dimas]

With that said, there are items that you have posted as "fact". They are not facts...

Well actually there is no logical way that my facts can be far wrong (maybe a little inaccurate but) I can't be off the mark by much Bionic. Your parts and labor have to be very cheap to build that guitar for 350-400 in Cali.

I'll make it short (for me anyway) and just respond to this one:

The Custom Shop is for the more discerning player. You pick the options, the materials and the wood, the color and type of paint. They are made by the best of the best. They take significantly more time to build... think of the Custom Shop guitars like a "works bike". (any dirt bike riders out there?)

In other words what a Charvel by reputation is, was, and should be. The best of the best. Not the best we could do for 1100 bucks shop.

Update: I edited this post to take out the rest of my very well reasoned response because IMHO there really is no point to continuing the discussion.

So, in conclusion.....

When someone asks "what corners were cut" which was this thread was about (and how I entered it) understand it's a ridiculous position that "none were, its just built differently". That's semantics.

I'm in Charvels corner. I love them.

But I will never change the following position (and I truly believe it is the only logical way of looking at it):

FMIC needs to change the neck plate on So-Cals to protect the marque. IMHO. I KNOW they aren't identical to the old. But these plates are on Ebay and that is not good for anyone. When it costs 2 or 3 grand to get a plate like that people tend not to strip them off of guitars. They're just similar enough to get average people ripped off, and if it said "So-Cal by Charvel" it'd be much harder to do. If FMIC gave one whit about the brand name or the people who support it including those of us on this forum they'd change it. Now I'm done. I'm off to hijack another thread and let this one die. LOL. Thanks guys including Bionic, Grandtuek, and Newc. Truly enjoyed it.

[mudkicker]

think of the Custom Shop guitars like a "works bike". (any dirt bike riders out there?)

Time to hijack this thread. the factories claim the works bike is dead. Please. My suspension has never worked in the whoops like the the works bikes.

[Grandturk]

85, I guarantee the difference is in who picks up the body off the CNC machine.

[85 San Dimas]

Question: When you have a warranty issue on a Charvel CS guitar and have to send it back, where do you send it to? Who works on it?

When you have a warranty issue with a So-Cal where does it get sent to?

Reasonable enough question......and y'know the answers to all these different things are what create my opinion. I'd really like to know the answers.

Oh and I forgot. Zippo I agree with what you are saying logic-wise. That's actually part of what I'm trying to figure out and whats going on in the thread. What are the differences between one line of Charvels and another, and what significance does it have if any. Much of the disagreement is obviously about the significance.

[85 San Dimas]

[quote=Newc;1230414]I think what he's saying is that by using a CNC "rubber stamp" machine, being so much better at rough-cutting body blanks than using the old one-piece-at-a-time bandsaw, is actually a bad thing, and that only " real" Charvels are done the old, slow, tedious, more-costly way simply because that's how it was done back in 1980-85.quote]

Right Newc. I don't think CNC is good or bad, but I think it isn't part of the build process for a Charvel. That's part of the reason a Charvel should cost much more. The all-encompassing "build" is the primary issue on Charvel guitars at the CS prices with that brand name. Since So-Cals don't conform to pre-IMC or present/former charvel CS standards......thus my conclusion to this point.

[85 San Dimas]

The biggest misnomer in this thread is that Charvel is something more than a brand...that's all it is folks. Beyond that, Charvels are and will be whatever the owner of that brand (FMIC) wishes to release as a "Charvel".

This romantic notion of what they "are" or "should be" is touching but has no basis in reality.

Unfortunately you are right, especially since the sales literature leads us to believe that "Grover is back", or "Shannon is building Charvels" implying that its just like it "used to be". I mean, I'm not making this stuff up.

[85 San Dimas]

I already ask for a tour in this thread twice...but no response:think:
c'mon Bionic, show me you're right and I will sing FMIC/Charvels praises to the whole world.

But Flatpicker, this is the most detail Bionic has given up to this point. previous posts were more vague. Am I convinced? Not quite yet. If Bionic is saying that the CS bodies are CNC'd then I'd have to agree that it is acceptable to use those machines for the production line obviously. How could I not?

So question #1: Bionic, are CNC machines used in the manufacture of Charvels? Not the So-Cals, the San Dimas and above? If Shannon picks up an average CS body and neck to put a guitar together is he picking up parts that have been CNC'd? Even a little bit?

My argument has always been that the very corners that were cut to build the So-Cals are what constitute the difference between a "Fender" and a "Charvel". The So-Cal "build" is "Fender" and not "Charvel". Ford not Ferrari. Am I being a "d**k"? Maybe to some, but I'd say that at least I'm asking questions. That's what the JCF is for, right? And beyond the argument back and forth there is a lot of interest in these guitars.

Also, I knew that last post would pull Bionic back in, BUT it was interesting to note that the So-Cals share bridges with the more expensive models as well so....what do you mean, Bionic?

Question #2: Do you mean the "floyd" Bionic? or the "trad" trem? or both?
The trad trem I'd believe, but the "floyd"?

Anyway, thanks for the post Bionic........when is the factory tour? I can see both sides of the wall which is tremendous!!!! Can I bring my old '85 Pink Soloist and have Mike give it the once over?